This frequency of English localization issues is unacceptable

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

If I'm not mistaken, the old localization team (Who worked on the game until somewhere in late HW or SB to my knowledge) is the one who's praised for their excellent work but they have been moved to work on FFXVI.
The current one has worked on both ShB and EW to my knowledge but unsure of any other details.
Please for anyone with more info please correct me if I'm wrong or lacking.

AFAIK only the localisation lead changed.

And they have always taken some liberties as the team works closely with the writers.

Literally nothing has changed. People complained about Koji all the time with his "localisations" too. Honestly, the first example isn't really even that different, it conveys the same meaning to me.

[Theodric]

If I'm not mistaken, the old localization team (Who worked on the game until somewhere in late HW or SB to my knowledge) is the one who's praised for their excellent work but they have been moved to work on FFXVI.
The current one has worked on both ShB and EW to my knowledge but unsure of any other details.
Please for anyone with more info please correct me if I'm wrong or lacking.

You have the right of it. Koji Fox was in charge of the English localisation up until Shadowbringers and then quietly left to go and work on FFXVI. We didn't learn this, however, until Endwalker when it was casually mentioned in one of the Live Letters.

The role shifted to a woman named Kate, who has been showing up in recent Live Letters and is fairly active on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/fabulafatua

[KizuyaKatogami]

AFAIK only the localisation lead changed.

And they have always taken some liberties as the team works closely with the writers.

Literally nothing has changed. People complained about Koji all the time with his "localisations" too. Honestly, the first example isn't really even that different, it conveys the same meaning to me.

"Isnt really that different." One is literally saying something that hasnt happened. Theyve witnessed the vaok his power can wreak? Where???

[Kranel_San]

AFAIK only the localisation lead changed.

And they have always taken some liberties as the team works closely with the writers.

Literally nothing has changed. People complained about Koji all the time with his "localisations" too. Honestly, the first example isn't really even that different, it conveys the same meaning to me.

You have the right of it. Koji Fox was in charge of the English localisation up until Shadowbringers and then quietly left to go and work on FFXVI. We didn't learn this, however, until Endwalker when it was casually mentioned in one of the Live Letters.

The role shifted to a woman named Kate, who has been showing up in recent Live Letters and is fairly active on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/fabulafatua

Thank you two for correcting me.
Do we have any localization issues pre ShB? If so, are they frequent as they're now? Because if ShB-EW localization issues frequency is higher now than how they used to be then I think we understands why.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

"Isnt really that different." One is literally saying something that hasnt happened. Theyve witnessed the vaok his power can wreak? Where???

Uhh, he sacrificed half the population? That havoc?


Look, we know you are a zodiark fan boy. Keep it to the other threads lol

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Thank you two for correcting me.
Do we have any localization issues pre ShB? If so, are they frequent as they're now? Because if ShB-EW localization issues frequency is higher now than how they used to be then I think we understands why.

Yes, no change in frequency. Again, literally nothing has changed

[KizuyaKatogami]

Uhh, he sacrificed half the population? That havoc?

He didn’t sacrifice half the population, the people chose to do so. By that logic then they should be worried about Hydaelyn seeing as she too had sacrificed. They also….didn’t exactly witness that though.

[Asari5]

midgardsomr told you he would rise to figth in the dragonsong war in the beginning of your dialoge.... when i read that in an english stream i was like: 'uhm... what?!'

[Midareyukki]

Except that they can, at least this localization team. Allow me, a professional translator, to explain to you what's going on.
I'll break it down in topics.

1. What Localization actually is and involves

As OP said, and very well at that, Localization is more than just rendering a text into another language. That's mere Translation. And Translation itself already has its own nuances: will you translate things literally as close to the source text as possible, or will you have a more explicative approach so that it both sounds good in the target language and actually makes the text digestable by the target language? This last bit is important, because certain languages don't care for long sentences. Whereas others do. General consensus among professionals is that it's a mix, and the amount of either varies between scope (ie, the purpose of the text) and its context (eg, literary vs legal text).

But Localization takes that and applies to everything about a given product. Not just translating a product's own texts, but also making sure the product as a whole works in other cultures. So it also handles stuff like scenarios, systems (especially in software, where keyboard layouts and shortcuts aren't the same) and even cultural aspects. It can be images, sounds, the title itself, the use of colours and even some scenarios that might be sensitive to a certain audience. Look at Nintendo's censorship efforts in the 90's.

We think a translation team shouldn't directly interfere on the product. But that's a "should". Real translation of any kind WILL mess with it, even if it's minor. You can't run away from this, even if it's something as obvious as "lost in translation" effects. Where nuance gets lost. And in Localization, the product is still the same but has been notably modified, often with someone's consent, for consumers.

2. What sort of team does SE have that allows them to do this? Are they incompetent!?

SE's team is an internal team. Not only that, it's spear-headed by one of the guys who make up the game's own lore: Koji Fox. This means that the localization team is involved in making the game. This almost never happens: the translation team is a side thing, away from the game's development. But here, the guy in charge of translation IS a part of the dev team. He shapes the product. Not only does he know the dev team's decisions first-hand, but also has a say in what they are.

There is nothing inherently incompetent about this. Consider this a different product than that of JP, with SE's approval. You're getting the same story, don't get me wrong. But this is the origin of the tone differences and all the memes.

[Midareyukki]

3. What sort of work does a Localization team do, and what does Square do differently?.

A normal team is given a product. People, usually the client himself alongside his translators, debate a little on what content will be changed so that everything goes smoothly. Though it's possible it doesn't always happen, can't always keep track of every change. The project is then divided into strings (for text) and stuff like images and sounds for editors. They are given manuals and term bases and other resources to keep consistency and there's one guy, the Project Manager, who oversees the overall quality and the team's efforts. Once it's done and has been reviewed, they then take to test out the product to make sure their work didn't break something. It's then approved, sent to the client for final approval and it's shipped to you. This is a generalized thing.

SE has this on an internal level, but due to what I said on #2, likely has more creative freedom. For all intents and purposes, what they do is take the base game and the established plot, but rework it in a way that both makes sense for English players, but also has the flavour that their Project Manager decided it should have. This PM is Koji Fox, who HAS said freedom to do this.

In essence, they make "two games in one". Though they are very much similar, Koji Fox being so involked allows him to add some colour to his English version. Hence all the flourishes, vague mentions, prosaic speech and differences from the original text. And memes. Lots of memes.

Keep in mind that this is likely known by the dev team and they gave his approval, as long as he doesn't go overboard. Which he doesn't, he just makes stuff be flowery and hard to get, or changes the emotion of other parts.

You do still get the exact same product Japan got, but with a hint of nuance that wasn't there.

4. Okay but why are FR and DE different than EN?

Because Koji Fox likely only knows English and Japanese. He doesn't know French nor German, so he gives it to an external team. This external team will be given the original product, and while they will also do some changes to the product, they won't be as marked as the ones the English team was allowed to do.

This has also led to some bit of trouble where they likely didn't test out the product as they should, leading to some spoilery leak about Hrothgar in the French translation back in Stormblood. Different teams, under different managements, will work with different timescales and permissions. And thus, since we don't have a memelord in FR or DE, the amount of text changes and additions that EN finds charming is likely to be far lower. With this, however, comes the added bonus of the text being more faithful to the original.