Why do casuals act as if it's the end of the world when suggesting?

[redheadturk]

In from the cold's problem is that it was not completely clear even with context clues how to clear it without using a guide first. Unless you found the downed mech or the fuel first before trying to find the linear path out you were likely to get murdered by the machina near the exit without understanding what you were supposed to do to get past them.

[Xaruko_Nexume]

In from the cold's problem is that it was not completely clear even with context clues how to clear it without using a guide first. Unless you found the downed mech or the fuel first before trying to find the linear path out you were likely to get murdered by the machina near the exit without understanding what you were supposed to do to get past them.

I actually kinda use that quest as a benchmark for determining a players skill. I read a thread about it on these forums before I got to that part of MSQ and was horrified and terrified. I did it on normal, first try, with a couple minutes to spare. Thats far from a brag, im bad at games and I know it. The fact that people were struggling with that, really put things in perspective for me.

[redheadturk]

I actually kinda use that quest as a benchmark for determining a players skill. I read a thread about it on these forums before I got to that part of MSQ and was horrified and terrified. I did it on normal, first try, with a couple minutes to spare. Thats far from a brag, im bad at games and I know it. The fact that people were struggling with that, really put things in perspective for me.

Most of the game's content is "Kill this thing, exit instance." of course a lot of people aren't going to be prepared for what is essentially a puzzle game being tossed into the middle of things. I suck at stealth, which was *part* of my issue with that quest, though once I figured out what I was supposed to do I cleared it easy.

[LeonKeyh]

I actually kinda use that quest as a benchmark for determining a players skill. I read a thread about it on these forums before I got to that part of MSQ and was horrified and terrified. I did it on normal, first try, with a couple minutes to spare. Thats far from a brag, im bad at games and I know it. The fact that people were struggling with that, really put things in perspective for me.

I had to run it twice because I put my controller down to grab a drink right before the quick time event lol.

Here's my argument and it's something that comes up A LOT in Final Fantasy 14, this is just a good example of it:

I loved In from the Cold because of the lack of direction and the feeling of hopelessness and powerlessness. But it was bad game design whenever you look at it within the context of Final Fantasy 14. FF14 holds your hand during the entirety of the game between the quest markers, "v.easy/easy" difficulty on solo duties, and Duty Finder parties easily carrying players. The game does a very bad job at fostering player skill and a very bad job at slowly pushing people to improve, instead they just offer ways to get around any sort of challenge that the player isn't interested in dealing with. You really can't drop something like In from the Cold onto these people who have been spoon fed easy content for hundreds of hours.

IMO at least.

That being said, I think that people should have been able to clear it if they just calmed down and looked around like they were supposed to, but it's like they were playing Mario 64 and suddenly ended up in a different game.

[EgilTheStressedMage]

In from the cold's problem is that it was not completely clear even with context clues how to clear it without using a guide first. Unless you found the downed mech or the fuel first before trying to find the linear path out you were likely to get murdered by the machina near the exit without understanding what you were supposed to do to get past them.

Casual here. I cleared it on my first try without any guide well before the nerf and with the threat of disconnection.

[Kazelus]

In from the cold's problem is that it was not completely clear even with context clues how to clear it without using a guide first. Unless you found the downed mech or the fuel first before trying to find the linear path out you were likely to get murdered by the machina near the exit without understanding what you were supposed to do to get past them.

I don't understand the complaint about it, nobody in my friend circle had trouble doing this quest first try without a guide. You have plenty of time to do so, depending on your setup, (screen width, distance from it, ps4/PC graphics) it may be harder to do it easily cause you won't see the direction the ennemy are facing.
I've done it first try, I was stressed as fuck cause I was really involved in the story and I wanted to go as fast as possible to save my scions friends from Zenos. I've headed in the wrong direction at the start, I lose a lot of times fighting monsters in that way, I found the fuel first but couldn't take it. I had to get back, I found the machine that needed fuel and had to travel all the ways back to take the fuel. And I finished it first try and I had time to spare at the end. All the informations you need are said in the quest. It's clearly a skill check like Xaruko said.

Yep I promise. I have no reason to lie.

Its not ALWAYS like this, some runs are fast smooth and ez but its disastrous often enough to prove that we really are at the max already for content difficulty without losing a significant amount of people.

You said I seems to be reasonable so I will apply the same to you. But you really think we will lose people just because they can't do a content on the first go ? I can't believe people expect to finish every content on first try without actually trying to do things correctly... Cause if there is a wipe, it means something haven't been done correctly...
The only wipe I get nowaday on CT are on the Atomos in labyrinth because A pulled directly or eventually an ancient flare but for it, it's 50/50 either people freak out when it's killable before the end of the cast or they greed when it's not...
I don't like wiping, especially on thing that souldn't make us wipe( I look at out P3S "black flames"), but a game I can rush on one try without dying ever... I'm not gonna finish it, if it's for only facerolls the story, I don't the point in playing, let's see the cinematics on youtube, it will be faster... (And cheaper...)

[Quor]

In from the cold's problem is that it was not completely clear even with context clues how to clear it without using a guide first. Unless you found the downed mech or the fuel first before trying to find the linear path out you were likely to get murdered by the machina near the exit without understanding what you were supposed to do to get past them.

In From the Cold is a common sense check. That is all. Does a person have the common sense to pick up on the very-obvious context clues the game presents to them and then act on them? Or are they going to continue to YOLO into danger regardless of the limitations they now work against?

Fanny Danny makes it quite clear that you are just a regular mook, shorn of all of your inherent power and placed into the body of the kind of NPC that you've slaughtered in the thousands. He then, also quite clearly, talks about scurrying about "like a rat." Anyone who is paying attention here can put two and two together just from the first fight and the discussion with Fanny:

1 - you, as the player, are now in the body of a faceless NPC instead of the god-killing body that is the Warrior of Light.
2 - the game shows you, again, VERY clearly, that you will struggle to even engage in a single 1v1 battle and emerge victorious.
3 - further complicating things is the now-apparent lack of health regen; we are restricted to med kits that we must scrounge for in the ruins of the capital city.

With this, the game is making it clear; you are NOT going to balls-to-the-wall this quest. You are going to need to avoid fights whenever possible, you are going to need to keep your eye out for scavenged items to keep your HP up and you're going to need to pay very close attention to any fights you get into in order to survive. Since even a single tempered imperial soldier is a challenge it stands to reason (or it *should* anyway) that you're not going to be able to take on any kind of warmachina, so when you come across the immobile magitek armor in front of a huge horde of warmachina the player *should* be able to put those things together and go "ah, ok, based on the experiences I've just had I can't hope to beat this horde without using the magitek armor. The entire point of why the Garlean people came up with magitek was to help make up for their own personal weaknesses as a people. It only makes sense, as an imperial soldier, to utilize this imperial technology to overcome the obstacle ahead. I should look for the key and go scrounge for fuel to re-activate this Reaper."

But that leisurely stroll of logic is, apparently, a bridge too far for a depressingly-high amount of people.

[redheadturk]

In From the Cold is a common sense check. That is all. Does a person have the common sense to pick up on the very-obvious context clues the game presents to them and then act on them? Or are they going to continue to YOLO into danger regardless of the limitations they now work against?

Fanny Danny makes it quite clear that you are just a regular mook, shorn of all of your inherent power and placed into the body of the kind of NPC that you've slaughtered in the thousands. He then, also quite clearly, talks about scurrying about "like a rat." Anyone who is paying attention here can put two and two together just from the first fight and the discussion with Fanny:

1 - you, as the player, are now in the body of a faceless NPC instead of the god-killing body that is the Warrior of Light.
2 - the game shows you, again, VERY clearly, that you will struggle to even engage in a single 1v1 battle and emerge victorious.
3 - further complicating things is the now-apparent lack of health regen; we are restricted to med kits that we must scrounge for in the ruins of the capital city.

With this, the game is making it clear; you are NOT going to balls-to-the-wall this quest. You are going to need to avoid fights whenever possible, you are going to need to keep your eye out for scavenged items to keep your HP up and you're going to need to pay very close attention to any fights you get into in order to survive. Since even a single tempered imperial soldier is a challenge it stands to reason (or it *should* anyway) that you're not going to be able to take on any kind of warmachina, so when you come across the immobile magitek armor in front of a huge horde of warmachina the player *should* be able to put those things together and go "ah, ok, based on the experiences I've just had I can't hope to beat this horde without using the magitek armor. The entire point of why the Garlean people came up with magitek was to help make up for their own personal weaknesses as a people. It only makes sense, as an imperial soldier, to utilize this imperial technology to overcome the obstacle ahead. I should look for the key and go scrounge for fuel to re-activate this Reaper."

But that leisurely stroll of logic is, apparently, a bridge too far for a depressingly-high amount of people.

Again, I already pointed out unless you come across the machina first it is not immediately obvious. I know I am not the only person who tried to sneak around the mechs the first time to get to the exit, several other people right in this thread said they struggled with it their first time through.

[pikalovr]

Again, I already pointed out unless you come across the machina first it is not immediately obvious. I know I am not the only person who tried to sneak around the mechs the first time to get to the exit, several other people right in this thread said they struggled with it their first time through.

yes and thats what we call this very simple thing called trial and error you know

and no the game shouldn't have to hold your hand literally every 2 seconds any person with literally any sense would go ohpe. i can't sneak past that large group of enemies maybe i should search the map for a way to deal with them or something like a camo upgrade you'd search the map come across the mech with fuel or the mech standing there. and go from there (you don't have a use for the fuel from the broken mech yet if you encounter it first. so it's 100% reasonable for you to not carry it around and put a giant explosive on you. only after you find a use for the fuel would it be reasonable to take it with you)

[Nethereal]

and no the game shouldn't have to hold your hand literally every 2 seconds any person with literally any sense would go ohpe. i can't sneak past that large group of enemies

The game shouldn't hold your hand, correct. But it shouldn't give you false direction either.

It tells you to go to the camp it doesn't tell you that you have to go to the camp in a very specific way and you can't just use "common sense" and simply turn around a take the long way around and avoid them.
Good games give you real options, to fight or to avoid. They don't misdirect you they simply just don't tell you.

It makes perfect logical sense to be able to simply avoid them if the game gave you real choice, it doesn't. It misdirects you.