Why do casuals act as if it's the end of the world when suggesting?

[Syln]

What are you talking about ? If anything casuals like me are the one asking for slightly harder low tier content, i mean at that point most dungeons are sleep inducing due to over forgiving mechanics and jobs gameplay that are less and less engaging.

To rephrase it : difficulty from low tier activities come from your ability to keep your eyes open after a certain amount of time and it's kind of sad.

I'm not a try harder and don't like frustration but at that point that's just too much.

[Kazelus]

and i personally disagree, the Minstrel imagined what woudl happen if the Endsinger found a few more stars of despair, or even a FEW more souls.
He imagined, specificaly, that the darkness may have been so deep that even the Light of the scions could do naught but hold it at bay at most, but not pierce it,

Which is EXACTLY what happens. The Music itself is ALSO part of it, we dont get "with hearts alligned" in EX because the prayers of the scions didnt work outside of preventing our imidiate doom.
endsinger EX is PHASE 2!!!!! OF normal, the arena itself shows it, the light already pushes the dark back in the background.
but its Phase 2 without the Super buff.


And i personally disagree that the Planets are bullshit or annoying, you have ampel time to react to them, Only the 2 pairs of 2 sets of planets before second towers can be tricky if you are particularly unlucky(blue into red is the worst combo, change my mind)
HECK its LEGIT 2 things to consider "is it blue? yes? go to where slower is in a quarter rotation and get pushed back" and "is it red? yes, where will slow be in a quarter rotation, is it the back half? go front of boss, is it front half? go to the back of the arena" if you want to play it safe, if you dont want to play it safe? you have HALF THE ARENAS EDGE AS SAFETY(if not more) if you want to optimize for uptime blue dosnt change and red?.
"What Intercard does red impact? NW, go East at Endsingers hitbox circle, SW Go east, NE? Go West, SE? go West" so even THEN its just "does it impact west or east, go opposite"
Double red planets? dodge first, then Rotate 90° towards the first impact(so if it impacted SW first and NE Second, you start East, and then rotate 90° and end up in endsingers face..)

and Blue is super generous you can be at max melee range and not die off if you aim correctly, And you can 100% use it to prepoition yourself for double red as well

The phase 1 musics was already a mistake in normal, it completely got me out of the moments, it's the final boss, it deserved a unique musics for hitself, I can't listen to this musics anymore, it's presents in TOO MUCH fights... So if we can't had "with hearts aligned" we should have another unique musics for the fight, with a special phase to make the EX fight memorable and not a downgrade from the normal one... (Not on mechanics only in vibe) Instead of the scions reaching us, the fight should have showed our characters breaking his limit even more to beat meteion...

Never said planets are hards, I said there's annoying. I never get hit by any cause I know where to stand to avoid it and yeah you have plenty of time to move and I never lose uptime on the blue either... It's just not really an interesting mechs but an annoying one, that need a OS to justify players doing it because we all know, we wouldn't bother with if it wasn't the case... (Just like non melee uptime pattern on Zordiark...) And you can always stand at melee range for the red also... NE boom ? You go W. NW boom ? Go E. You will be safe for the red.

[Xaruko_Nexume]

If the "In From the Cold" nerfs taught us anything, it's that the vast majority of the player base seems incapable of understanding context clues and is completely helpless without something akin to a bright neon arrow pointing them to exactly where they need to go.

It is my fervent hope that SE understands that said casual players will simply abandon the game when it becomes too boring for them, which it will in record time due to how absolutely braindead most content has become. SE will also lose the more dedicated fan base that was the source of this games revival and success in the process. SE will once again make the corporate mistake of prioritizing short-term profits over long-term sustained growth. I'm reminded of a line from the intro cutscene in Secret of Mana; time flows like a river, and history repeats. It seems as if the hubris of SE may once again be on the rise, with dedicated fans and new players alike, who both enjoy a challenge, being left behind in favor of the FotM fly-by-night casual crowd who will largely tap out after a handful of months.

I played WoW for 16 years and I left because there was little to no compelling casual content for me to do. WoW caters to hardcores now. Outside of random dungeon finder and LFR which are awful, there is no casual content in modern WoW. That is part of the reason why I (and many) left. A huge reason I stay here is BECAUSE of the super casual content. Not in spite of it. How can you say casual players will simply abandon the game? This is THE mmo for casual content...

What im gathering from this thread and others like it, is that there are a lot of people playing this game in their personal bubble and have no clue how the community beyond these forums and their inner circle of raiders or whatever hardcore players do, *actually* works.

[Kazelus]

I played WoW for 16 years and I left because there was little to no compelling casual content for me to do. WoW caters to hardcores now. Outside of random dungeon finder and LFR which are awful, there is no casual content in modern WoW. That is part of the reason why I (and many) left. A huge reason I stay here is BECAUSE of the super casual content. Not in spite of it. How can you say casual players will simply abandon the game? This is THE mmo for casual content...

What im gathering from this thread and others like it, is that there are a lot of people playing this game in their personal bubble and have no clue how the community beyond these forums and their inner circle of raiders or whatever hardcore players do, *actually* works.

The things is we don't want a difficulty in casual content that could prevents casual from running casual contents, we want a difficulty that force player to actually plays the game, they are paying for and not waste the good player's time. I don't understand how people can accept to pass 25 min in expert roulettes when we can do it in 12 minutes. 25 minutes 90 dungeon shouldn't exist outside of trust. And such difficulty should be able to maintain a good player awake in those contents cause right now, we have more chance to fell asleep than dying..
The actual difficulty of all MSQ content from lvl 1 to 90 is under what you could find in an actual solo game that allows "just see the story difficulty mode".

[LeonKeyh]

Eureka like Bozja is pretty unfriendly if you can't commit for longer play times. It locks you out of anything else and is very inefficient when done solo and punishes you for each ko.

Fates are more friendly grind content, they can be done even if you don't have a lot of time and you can queue for other content at the same time, there's less pressure to join a group.

Really? You think so? Maybe you mean now that it's not current?

I soloed my way through Bozja about 80-90% of the time with 30-60 min play sessions. Jumped into parties for CEs and for CLL/DR/D but otherwise just went on my own. On the flip side some FATEs are rough to solo, either they're not/barely possible or it takes a long time. It definitely sucked with essences for those short play times and I'd agree with that being unfriendly without longer play times. Overall though, Bozja was _perfect_ for my play sessions because I could easily go in and didn't need to commit a certain amount of time.

[Xaruko_Nexume]

The things is we don't want a difficulty in casual content that could prevents casual from running casual contents, we want a difficulty that force player to actually plays the game, they are paying for and not waste the good player's time. I don't understand how people can accept to pass 25 min in expert roulettes when we can do it in 12 minutes. 25 minutes 90 dungeon shouldn't exist outside of trust. And such difficulty should be able to maintain good player to stay awake in those contents cause right now, we have more chance to fell asleep than dying..
The actual difficulty of all MSQ content from lvl 1 to 90 is under what you could find in an actual solo game that allows "just see the story difficulty mode".

I hope we can have a reasonable conversation about this, you seem reasonable.

Your post here to me just makes it seem like (obviously) different people want different things from this game. Like, everything you listed in that post as a negative, I view as a positive. Yoshi P and SE can, and will make mistakes of course. But they have to cater to the majority. Things like "Into the Cold" or whatever getting nerfed isn't done in a vaccum. They probably saw massive complaints or had data showing road blocks for a significant number of players at that part, and reacted accordingly.

I assure you, things will go your way when they start seeing players quit for reason "game too easy."

That isn't happening.

[redheadturk]

In from the cold's problem is that it was not completely clear even with context clues how to clear it without using a guide first. Unless you found the downed mech or the fuel first before trying to find the linear path out you were likely to get murdered by the machina near the exit without understanding what you were supposed to do to get past them.

[Xaruko_Nexume]

In from the cold's problem is that it was not completely clear even with context clues how to clear it without using a guide first. Unless you found the downed mech or the fuel first before trying to find the linear path out you were likely to get murdered by the machina near the exit without understanding what you were supposed to do to get past them.

I actually kinda use that quest as a benchmark for determining a players skill. I read a thread about it on these forums before I got to that part of MSQ and was horrified and terrified. I did it on normal, first try, with a couple minutes to spare. Thats far from a brag, im bad at games and I know it. The fact that people were struggling with that, really put things in perspective for me.

[Lauront]

I like this idea, give me a God Mode toggle for the game and you can make everything as hard as you like, I'll sit there with my ultimate shinies and titles without straining a finger while everyone else can huff and puff their way to the top.

I'm just talking about the specific scenario mentioned and stuff like it - arguably Trusts could come with that kind of option to avoid dumbing down normal content where they're available as an alternative so much, and allow people who just want to whiz through the story without much challenge to do that, so they can stop being used as an excuse.

I completed the scenario in one go and from what I remember it doesn't let you select the difficulty upfront, which maybe is something they could change, but on the other hand, I think there is some value in letting people see how they get on with the normal intended difficulty first. I appreciated that they were trying something novel in a 14 context with the scenario.

If the "In From the Cold" nerfs taught us anything, it's that the vast majority of the player base seems incapable of understanding context clues and is completely helpless without something akin to a bright neon arrow pointing them to exactly where they need to go.

It is my fervent hope that SE understands that said casual players will simply abandon the game when it becomes too boring for them, which it will in record time due to how absolutely braindead most content has become. SE will also lose the more dedicated fan base that was the source of this games revival and success in the process. SE will once again make the corporate mistake of prioritizing short-term profits over long-term sustained growth. I'm reminded of a line from the intro cutscene in Secret of Mana; time flows like a river, and history repeats. It seems as if the hubris of SE may once again be on the rise, with dedicated fans and new players alike, who both enjoy a challenge, being left behind in favor of the FotM fly-by-night casual crowd who will largely tap out after a handful of months.

This. I usually enjoy playing games on a harder difficulty setting, partly because normal modes tend to have pushover enemies, and I don't think I'd give this game much of a go if I were to approach it as a fresh player looking for a single player experience.

[redheadturk]

I actually kinda use that quest as a benchmark for determining a players skill. I read a thread about it on these forums before I got to that part of MSQ and was horrified and terrified. I did it on normal, first try, with a couple minutes to spare. Thats far from a brag, im bad at games and I know it. The fact that people were struggling with that, really put things in perspective for me.

Most of the game's content is "Kill this thing, exit instance." of course a lot of people aren't going to be prepared for what is essentially a puzzle game being tossed into the middle of things. I suck at stealth, which was *part* of my issue with that quest, though once I figured out what I was supposed to do I cleared it easy.