Why do casuals act as if it's the end of the world when suggesting?

[Rilifane]

As someone who is somewhat casual in this MMO (usually do some EXs but I wasn't too impressed with EW so not motivated to really), but enjoyed midcore raiding (and other content) in a prior MMO that shall not be named, agree with all this.
[...]

My hope had been, regarding MSQ content, that they'd use the trusts to allow for an optional "ez mode", so that the normal/DF version can show more variety in difficulty and be less braindead, as some of these fights represent very powerful bosses, and the mechanical ease can be jarring - the EX modes are too camped up to be taken seriously often in that sense, being deliberate fabrications of the Minstrel. [...]At the end of the day this is a game and I don't like things meant to be powerful just rolling over.

I'd also appreciate more "midcore" content, which is mechanically somewhat challenging and repeatable, but not a huge timesink.
[...]

I have virtually always considered myself a casual gamer. yet i play games on high difficulties , enjoy tough games like sekiro and bloodborne, and generally use games to suplement and add more challenges to life.

I'm in the same camp.

Despite what some people may think from my posts alone, I'm firmly in the casual camp but I enjoy challenging myself in games; whenever I start a new single-player I crank up the difficulty to max and see if I can still get away with RP/ flavour builds (got steamrolled in Pathfinder... when they say "Unfair", they MEAN "Unfair").
Casual doesn't mean that I have to avoid anything challenging or can't aim to play well nor does it mean I can't enjoy a bit of friendly performance competition or mull over mappings. I can be casual and still have very solid knowledge and experience and put it to use every time I do content.
But overall I don't play FFXIV all that much - sometimes entire months pass with me only logging in for raiding, some housing, crafting raid consumables and that's it.

I was hoping that expanding the Trust/ Duty Support system would add more options for everyone.
I'd even be 100% fine if a spectator mode existed for every single duty in this game - as long as it is only an option. The problem for me is that only one side has been given an option.
The only "option" for mildly challenging 4man content is getting a full premade and queue with min ilvl or stripping and preferably also no jobstone. That's about as much as an option as saying I could just try to play with my feet instead of hands or randomize my keybinds.
The only "option" for mildly challenging 8man outside of savage/ ultimate is hoping you get a clownfiesta party that fails everything they possibly can.

I feel like many changes lately pander to one crowd getting everything at once: easy content so you don't have to "play it like a second job" or be "super duper elitist hardcore" while also having the MMO aspect and getting the same reward as everyone else.

The other crowd has Savage and Ultimate which is 8man premade only on EU/ NA.
Ex is in a good spot for midcore difficulty but suffers from the same restrictions as Savage/ Ultimate.

I'm not holding my breath for Criterion dungeons but I'd love to see more midcore 4man content that you can pug through DF, preferably with several difficulty levels and you can work your way up. And it would be okay if not every party can clear it without problems - the chance to fail is part of midcore and above difficulty.
I would also like to see more difficult 8man DF content and open-world things but for now I'd be happy with just giving midcore difficulty for 4man as an option.

[RayneBoemir]

The problem is if the content is required for the MSQ. Anything that is required for the MSQ needs to be easy because some of the people who play only for the story are not very good and would be unable to progress if it was difficult. They would quit the game instead. Now that we are getting trusts in these dungeons, they are being nerfed a bit more so an AI can do them.

We used to have optional "hard mode" dungeons. There were apparently some very hard ones in ARR, but I didn't know anyone who regarded them as being hard when I started doing them.

A dungeon with multiple difficulty levels would be ideal, so we should wait and see what criterion dungeons are like.

I don’t recall anything being hard it’s more like anything requiring communication and teamwork is a no no because people just can’t bother to do that.

You only have to look at Steps of Faith.

[Avatre]

Agreed. I'm a casual player; Play 1-2 hours every 2-3 days or so, I don't have the time to get into Savage/Ultimate. I would absolutely love some harder light party content. There's a big difficulty gap that I fit in that I'm hoping Criterion Dungeons will fill.

"Casual" though has been used to describe people who are not interested in playing well and that's not us "real" casuals. A lot of those people play a lot, they just don't care about improving and shouldn't be lumped in with casual players.

I'm basically the same, though I do play more days than not...or at least used to, currently feeling that "why did I log in today" situation though. The only real difference, I don't really have the desire to do Savage/Ultimate, but still feel the regular content is way too fail-proof. It is so rare to get any wipes in even the newest of dungeons, and even more of the alliance/normal raids rarely see wipes these days even with almost everyone in a cutscene before it starts. Increasing the difficulty doesn't need to be savage/ultimate level, but steadily making it harder(more boss visual tells - like raising an arm for a swipe/tail for a swat/etc - and less AoE indicator, or anything to spice it up more)

[Kolsykol]

I am a casual player too lol, especially in the past EW is the expansion where I've actually gotten into Savage and my worries about the difficulty were completely unwarranted thus far I regret deciding not to touch the harder content in the past.
I expected it to be way worse and maybe it will be much harder in later tiers I am assuming so but that's also what I want.

Imo Savage and the Extremes are very casual friendly, maybe not I guess in terms if you wanna super optimize or whatever but just clearing them for sure.
Not saying some people might not struggle I am not trying to shame people or whatever I get that it takes longer for it to click for some people.
But I really feel like casual players are far more competent than a lot of people often say, and most people who complain about casuals probably are one themselves.
I dunno if people think that clearing this Savage tier or the Extremes make them '' hardcore '' because I find that a bit laughable tbh.

When I think of hardcore players I think of people who are progging Ultimates from day 1 or clearing Savage blind when they've just been released.
Looking up guides and doing Savage and Extreme I don't think is particularly hardcore or '' pro gamer '' and I am not particularly fuzzed about it either.
I think a lot of people are needlessly scared of them as I was.
To me it's mainly that I don't like feeling like a burden so I was worried about everyone else just facerolling it and me holding everyone back but that wasn't the case at all.
And even when I've had people like that in my groups there has all things considered been VERY little toxicity so long as you join the correct group.

[Xaruko_Nexume]

I think a lot of people are not realizing that the past year or so, SE has a made a lot of money with the buzz the around FFXIV being that it is finally the MMO that "respects your time."

In other words, a lot of people are not realizing that they are literally asking Yoshida and SE to change the very thing that has caused the game to explode to the point that my server still has a queue at 5am on a random Thursday. There is difficult content in the game if that is what you are looking for, but I am quite certain it will never, ever be the focus of this game.

Stranger things have happened though, so we will see.

[anhaato]

What does that have to do with anything, quickly. If it’s not worth your time then DON’T DO IT!

I guess by your logic savage shouldn't exist, that doesn’t respect your time at all.

[LeonKeyh]

Imo Savage and the Extremes are very casual friendly, maybe not I guess in terms if you wanna super optimize or whatever but just clearing them for sure.
Not saying some people might not struggle I am not trying to shame people or whatever I get that it takes longer for it to click for some people.
But I really feel like casual players are far more competent than a lot of people often say, and most people who complain about casuals probably are one themselves.
I dunno if people think that clearing this Savage tier or the Extremes make them '' hardcore '' because I find that a bit laughable tbh.

When I think of hardcore players I think of people who are progging Ultimates from day 1 or clearing Savage blind when they've just been released.
Looking up guides and doing Savage and Extreme I don't think is particularly hardcore or '' pro gamer '' and I am not particularly fuzzed about it either.
I think a lot of people are needlessly scared of them as I was.
To me it's mainly that I don't like feeling like a burden so I was worried about everyone else just facerolling it and me holding everyone back but that wasn't the case at all.
And even when I've had people like that in my groups there has all things considered been VERY little toxicity so long as you join the correct group.

See, this is the thing. I'm 100% confident that I would be as good or better than most of the people progging savage in any given instance. But, as a casual player I don't have the time to sit there and prog for 2 hours, and I don't really have the ability to commit to a certain time/day with a static. As a casual player, 30 minutes is really the longest that I can really commit to a play session, some sessions go above that, but I can't really COMMIT to that. So I'm locked out of that strictly because of time, that's all. I agree that the difficulty is fine for casual players, but I just really can't commit to the time for it.

This is another instance of the overlap of "not taking the game seriously" and "don't have that much time to play"

[Raoabolic]

I think a lot of people are not realizing that the past year or so, SE has a made a lot of money with the buzz the around FFXIV being that it is finally the MMO that "respects your time."

In other words, a lot of people are not realizing that they are literally asking Yoshida and SE to change the very thing that has caused the game to explode to the point that my server still has a queue at 5am on a random Thursday. There is difficult content in the game if that is what you are looking for, but I am quite certain it will never, ever be the focus of this game.

Stranger things have happened though, so we will see.

I think the biggest issue is the fact that the middleground content is slowly be eroded away in favor of accessibility. Nothing wrong with super casual content. Nothing wrong with Ultimate "your pinky was in the wrong spot and the mechanic failed, party wipe" content. So what's wrong with puzzle dungeons like Toto-Rak and Sunken Temple? What's wrong with quests like "into the cold"? Is having a middle ground that looked down upon?

[LeonKeyh]

I think the biggest issue is the fact that the middleground content is slowly be eroded away in favor of accessibility. Nothing wrong with super casual content. Nothing wrong with Ultimate "your pinky was in the wrong spot and the mechanic failed, party wipe" content. So what's wrong with puzzle dungeons like Toto-Rak and Sunken Temple? What's wrong with quests like "into the cold"? Is having a middle ground that looked down upon?

I agree with your general comment, but I think that it should be _optional_. That's all. Nothing is wrong with Into the Cold as an optional thing, but if it's required, it's going to really keep people from experiencing the story which is something that is really against what SE is trying to do.

I loved the things that you mentioned because they were more interesting than most and definitely agree that we need more of those. But, I don't think that it should be *required* (mainly because I don't want to see people complain)

[Lauront]

That's where having an optional easy setting can be handy.