Why do casuals act as if it's the end of the world when suggesting?

[Midareyukki]

God forbid when you suggest they should make content just a little bit more difficult, you get people that flip out.

Every casual that sees this behave as if their whole world is crumbling and they take that statement and exaggerate it reading it like: "All content needs to be Extreme/Savage Difficulty! Screw all the Casuals! Cater to the small minority! HOO-RAH!"

I mean, just chill. There is just no in between with these people, they just think there is only braindead easy and elite hardcore difficult, nothing in the middle. Dungeons are braindead easy you can clear it with just using your 1-2-3 buttons and a healbot, sure it will take longer but it is still possible.

"Nawt Mah Final Fantasy: Second Life Gaem!"

My garbage filthy casul take is:

- Thordan was really bad. Thordan EX was great.
- Shinryu was amazing. Shinryu EX was even better. People complained it was too hard for casual players, but it honestly just tested to see if you knew mechanics by now.
- Hades was amazing as well. Hades EX was a bit boring but still good. I didn't see people complain, and I think at this point the dev team had faith in people being able to recognize mechanics and animation tells.
- Endsinger was just bull, Endsinger EX is even worse. The meteors are finnicky as all hell, the timing is too strict and the damage is punishing. I'm sorry for not having fast reflexes to awkward "mechanics", but this thing isn't hard. It's just bull.

The other fights were actually challenging for casual-level players. Endsinger is just fake difficulty because it relies on you having fast reflexes. Not everyone is that quick to process what's going on or judge the limits of an AoE.

It's not that it's hard. Because I understand the mechanic. And I can execute it, most people can. I just don't like it because I'm slow and it requires me to have dumb reflexes and I'm just not the sort of guy to want that sort of impulse. I like mechanical difficulty in other ways, I've played some savage tiers on-content and I enjoyed them. Endsinger is just not fun.

The Omega Raids were fun. The Eden raids teetered on "fun" and "exhausting". Even the current tier only has one fight I don't enjoy, and that's because I'm colourblind, so orange on orange on red on orange isn't particularly indicative for me. But Endsinger? I just can't deal with it.

[Nav_Fae]

. I just don't like it because I'm slow and it requires me to have dumb reflexes and I'm just not the sort of guy to want that sort of impulse. I like mechanical difficulty in other ways, I've played some savage tiers on-content and I enjoyed them. Endsinger is just not fun.

[Midareyukki]

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idk if we can insert gifs here, but you know the Zootopia sloth meme? That's me.

And even with that sort of reflexes, I can do Savages, Extremes, even Zenos Final just fine.

Endsinger can go suck on a big fat taco for all I care.

[Kazelus]

My garbage filthy casul take is:

- Thordan was really bad. Thordan EX was great.
- Shinryu was amazing. Shinryu EX was even better. People complained it was too hard for casual players, but it honestly just tested to see if you knew mechanics by now.
- Hades was amazing as well. Hades EX was a bit boring but still good. I didn't see people complain, and I think at this point the dev team had faith in people being able to recognize mechanics and animation tells.
- Endsinger was just bull, Endsinger EX is even worse. The meteors are finnicky as all hell, the timing is too strict and the damage is punishing. I'm sorry for not having fast reflexes to awkward "mechanics", but this thing isn't hard. It's just bull.

The other fights were actually challenging for casual-level players. Endsinger is just fake difficulty because it relies on you having fast reflexes. Not everyone is that quick to process what's going on or judge the limits of an AoE.

It's not that it's hard. Because I understand the mechanic. And I can execute it, most people can. I just don't like it because I'm slow and it requires me to have dumb reflexes and I'm just not the sort of guy to want that sort of impulse. I like mechanical difficulty in other ways, I've played some savage tiers on-content and I enjoyed them. Endsinger is just not fun.

The Omega Raids were fun. The Eden raids teetered on "fun" and "exhausting". Even the current tier only has one fight I don't enjoy, and that's because I'm colourblind, so orange on orange on red on orange isn't particularly indicative for me. But Endsinger? I just can't deal with it.

The things with Endsinger and Endsinger EX are first: Where's the good and unique musics in the fight (essentially the EX but even the normal have less time for the FIGHT UNIQUE MUSIC) ?, second: the whole planet mechs is just annoying, not difficult, just annoying, if the red weren't instadeath on EX, people would simply ignore it..., third: The EX have less phase than normal ? How is that suppose to please the playerbase ? Wasn't the wandering Minstrel suppose to imagine the fight if Meteion have found ONE more dead civilization so why do we have less phase ? Shinryu and Hades had special phase for ex, that's just disappointing...

I would had that, Zordiark EX without the instadeath on the meteor have story difficulty(That fight is a joke.).

That's because you've been playing so long that the in-between is second nature to you. Your perspective on this is completely skewed. The "too hard" for you consists of novel mechanics that you haven't seen for the past 90 levels. By your standard, the entire game past level 50 is "too hard" for new players. With practice, it gradually becomes "in-between," and then eventually it'll become "too easy." That's how it should be, and that's the mark of a properly designed game. What doesn't make sense is for a long-time vet who has mastered the mechanics to insist that they retroactively ratchet up the difficulty on all the content that they mastered long ago so that they can feel a sense of challenge again in content that they've already done hundreds of times and is now completely optional for them.

Many of the posters on these forums are long-time players who have the same skewed perspective that you do, and I'm sure they're going to upvote you. Don't delude yourself into thinking that tens or hundreds of upvotes on a game's forums is in any way a representation of how well your suggestion would be taken by the millions of players who are subbed to this game. Most of the players whose content you're proposing to ruin will never even browse to this page, let alone post on it.

I assume you would be surprised if the devs would make ARR dungeon back to their originals difficulty. Most players today would be unable to clear Sastasha if it was still the same as the release... And Copperbell mine's was even harder back in the day. You weren't waiting for spriggans to spawn cause you one shotted them in the first boss(the one before 6.1.), they needed 10gcds to die, eachs one of them.

The game is not "too hard" after 50, it's just players that refuse to learn. I once had to deal with a tank that wouldn't mitigate and walk in AoE on Bardam trashs mobs... It was a pain and when he died, he blamed me for my healing instead of thinking about the way he played. (And he was a bit understuff. Not even Shire jewels just the primals one.)

[Ronduwil]

I assume you would be surprised if the devs would make ARR dungeon back to their originals difficulty. Most players today would be unable to clear Sastasha if it was still the same as the release... And Copperbell mine's was even harder back in the day.

This is completely consistent with the point I was making. Mechanics in those dungeons were completely novel to everyone at that point because everyone was new. I don't agree that most players today would be unable to clear Satasha. They might struggle with it their first few times, but after running it a couple of times a week through the roulette, they would adapt, learn and maybe eventually go on to flex on the forums and complain that Satasha is too easy for anyone with half a braincell because 3/4 of the party knows all the mechanics like the back of their hand.

I still see people dying in the leveling roulette all the time. It's not because they're trash, stupid, or lazy players. It's because they don't have enough experience with the mechanics that are killing them. Once you've experienced a given mechanic enough, you don't even think about it anymore. You see the tell and instinctively move. At that point it seems easy, and you eventually forget the times you died to it when you were starting out.

[Kazelus]

This is completely consistent with the point I was making. Mechanics in those dungeons were completely novel to everyone at that point because everyone was new. I don't agree that most players today would be unable to clear Satasha. They might struggle with it their first few times, but after running it a couple of times a week through the roulette, they would adapt, learn and maybe eventually go on to flex on the forums and complain that Satasha is too easy for anyone with half a braincell because 3/4 of the party knows all the mechanics like the back of their hand.

I still see people dying in the leveling roulette all the time. It's not because they're trash, stupid, or lazy players. It's because they don't have enough experience with the mechanics that are killing them. Once you've experienced a given mechanic enough, you don't even think about it anymore. You see the tell and instinctively move. At that point it seems easy, and you eventually forget the times you died to it when you were starting out.

It wasn't a mechanics difficulty, it was more a number difficulty, you had to actually DPS to beat them that what we are asking for, right now, we have people that don't understand that they need to AOE on packs, if they had struggled on Sastasha and Copperbell because they were swarmed by sahuagin and spriggans perhaps they would understand what the points of AoEing. Healer who would have seen what a tank taking damage means wouldn't be so pressed to spam cure a tank that is not taking damage at all.
And later, they would learn that mechanics are important but they would allready knows the importance of doing their jobs correctly. And we could now have more complex mechanics in dungeon. What was the point of Tank buster telegraph in EW dungeon when they weren't telegraphed before ? EW dungeons are a pain in easyness because the devs thought people would jump right there without doing the previous content ? Cool, now vets are annoyed.

[Ronduwil]

It wasn't a mechanics difficulty, it was more a number difficulty, you had to actually DPS to beat them that what we are asking for, right now, we have people that don't understand that they need to AOE on packs, if they had struggled on Sastasha and Copperbell because they were swarmed by sahuagin and spriggans perhaps they would understand what the points of AoEing. Healer who would have seen what a tank taking damage means wouldn't be so pressed to spam cure a tank that is not taking damage at all.

Granted that this is subjective, but I think mechanics difficulty is much harder to overcome than DPS difficulty. I don't know how it was on release, but right now, you don't even have that many buttons at Satasha level. You have maybe a 2-3 button DPS combo, and a one-button AoE spam, if you're lucky enough to even have AoE at level 18. What exactly was hard about that? "Switch to your AoE button when three or more adds appear," is much easier to understand and implement than, "When the boss flies up into the air, look at the blinking lights on the side and dodge repeatedly in the order corresponding to the number of dots in each column while keeping an eye out for the circles of pain that will be spread all over the floor."

[EriShvakh]

I assume you would be surprised if the devs would make ARR dungeon back to their originals difficulty. Most players today would be unable to clear Sastasha if it was still the same as the release... And Copperbell mine's was even harder back in the day. You weren't waiting for spriggans to spawn cause you one shotted them in the first boss(the one before 6.1.), they needed 10gcds to die, eachs one of them.

This is some "vanilla wow was hard" tier of nostalgia. Nothing in sastasha or copperbell was ever hard. It felt hard because game was new and players were bad. All ARR dungeons up to Cutter's Cry are boring tank and spank fests.

And before you go "b-but the game is easier now", just compare the difficulty between Shiva normal and Zodiark normal. And dare to tell me that shiva is harder or more complex.

[Laphicet]

This is some "vanilla wow was hard" tier of nostalgia. Nothing in sastasha or copperbell was ever hard. It felt hard because game was new and players were bad. All ARR dungeons up to Cutter's Cry are boring tank and spank fests.

And before you go "b-but the game is easier now", just compare the difficulty between Shiva normal and Zodiark normal. And dare to tell me that shiva is harder or more complex.

With Shiva you actually have to do your individual mechanics to a degree, albeit a small one, and shiva has the reverse tankbuster thing too. This is not true for Zodiark normal as you can just follow one person with a marker over their head and clear the fight just fine. Do not forget that iLVL bloat is also a factor in things, too.

[EriShvakh]

With Shiva you actually have to do your individual mechanics to a degree, albeit a small one, and shiva has the reverse tankbuster thing too. This is not true for Zodiark normal as you can just follow one person with a marker over their head and clear the fight just fine. Do not forget that iLVL bloat is also a factor in things, too.

I am talking about both fights on release. There is no point in talking about current shiva.
There is no individual responsibility outside of walking away if you have aoe marker. Rest is just tank and spank, and her circles can be dodged by following marked player just the same. Zodiark has much more patterns and mechanics, and gives you way less time to react to them compared to anything Shiva does, besides her cone tankbuster.