Why IS the savage lockout system the way it is?

[Dzian]

No, participation is low is because players don't want to learn mechanics, they just want to get fed rewards. Look at how many people have tried to nerf regular trials over the years rather than learn the fights. Look at how many players do everything to avoid getting anything other than Crystal Tower raids because they don't want to put in effort. Look at how many people gamed the MSQ roulette before the changes so they only got Prae instead of CM. People want rewards for little to no work, and that is why participation is low, because they don't want to work for their rewards. Btw, I really hate that I even had to go on that tirade because I'm not a fan of the "lazy people" spiel you hear a lot these days, but unfortunately that seems to apply to this community quite a bit, and they'll brush off the reasoning for why they do it as "efficiency."

Some perhaps but there's also a very popular and common opinion that the hardest thing about savage is not the content but getting a decent group... You can sort of see this, as with every tier the devs make it easier and easier lowering the bar to try and entice more and more players in but the players say no. not because its difficult content but because they dont want the bs of dealing with pfs or statics that require 25 hours a day 8 days a week or memebers that drop and leave every week requiring continuous back tracking....

It's said by a lot of people on the forums that they would try the content if they could do it with their friends or players they know and are more comfortable around. Instead of having to deal with pfs statics and all the bs that comes with them..

So if the game actually encouraged and promoted teamwork and cooperation between players instead of punishing it then you'd find participation in higher ontent would increase. a player could hop on on a saturday evening hop into there fc and be like anyone wanna come do this fight and you'd be more likely to build a working group between people in the fc that may also need there weekly loot and people that have aready got theres but happy to come and help the fc out..

There are undoubatably lazy people especially on the NA side which is exactly why the NA raid finder is never touched but on the JP side people are able to pug ultimates with the raid finder tool.
doesnt matter how much yoshi keeps lowering the bar and making the tiers easier.. if it requires all the crap that comes with statics players will still avoid it.

But when it comes to efficiency that's honestly a valid reason. The game neve reasons much content so players do the same thing ove rand over.. Algalia has been out less than 2 months and I wouldn't be surprised if there's players who have already done it 100+ times chasing there weekly drops. Because its the only piece of content currently worth doing that doesn't require dealing with pf/static bs.. so it's no surprise to see players dropping I levels to speed up roulette because they're sick of it and just wanna be done as quick as possible because it's essentially just a chore for some tomes.

Participation is low for many reasons. And the loot restriction blocking friends from helping other friends a d playing together is definitely one of them... I know quite a number rof people who would try content if they could just do it with peoe they know instead of random...

[Saraide]

Some perhaps but thers also a very popular and common opinion that the hardest thing aout savage is not the content but getting a decent group... you can sort of see this, as with every tier the devs make it easier and easier lowering the bar to try and entice more and more players in but the players say no. not because its difficult content but because they dont wantt he bs of dealing with statics that require 25 hours a day 8 days a week or memebers that drop and leave every week requiring continupus back tracking....

it's said by a lot of people on the forums that they would try the content if they didnt have to deal with statics and all the bs that comes with them.. so if the game actually encouraged and promoted teamwork and cooperation between players instead of punishing it then you'd find participation would increase. a player could hop on on a saturday evening hop into there fc and be like anyone wanna come do this fight and you'd be more likely to build a working group between people in the fc that may also need there weekly loot and people that have aready got theres but happy to come and help the fc out..

there are undoubatably lazy people especially on the NA side which is exactly why the NA raid finder is never touched but on the JP side people are able to pug ultimates with the raid finder tool.
doesnt matter how much yoshi keeps lowering the bar and making the tiers easier.. if it requires all the crap that comes with statics players will still avoid it.

Many times the people complaining about being unable to find good groups are one of the key reasons groups fall apart. It's an easy thing to say when trying to shift blame.

[Lihtleita]

so pf doesnt die within two days

[Velvet_Lunarfang]

Who even cares of doing savage with PF. PF is a gamble anyway. I also hate the fact of the weekly tomes being capped at 450 just let us get 2000. The weekly cap is really stupid and trying to gear up shouldn't take months to get a complete set

[Dzian]

. PF is a gamble anyway.

Exactly . That's why if players could try content with there friends without being punished they'd be more willing to dip there toes in and try than they ever would be with the NA pf.

[KuroMaboroshi]

Some perhaps but thers also a very popular and common opinion that the hardest thing aout savage is not the content but getting a decent group... you can sort of see this, as with every tier the devs make it easier and easier lowering the bar to try and entice more and more players in but the players say no. not because its difficult content but because they dont wantt he bs of dealing with statics that require 25 hours a day 8 days a week or memebers that drop and leave every week requiring continupus back tracking....

It is perfectly possible to clear any content in the game without a static, all the way up to Ultimates, if people are willing to put in the effort. There are entire communities dedicated to running Savage and Ultimate content without the need for a group with set raid times and members. Is it more difficult than with a static, less reliable and will require more time? Probably, but it is not the barrier some people claim it to be. It's perfectly fair if someone finds it too much effort and therefore decide not to do it, but anyone pretending that not having a static is somehow an unsurmountable barrier to clearing content and getting loot from it is deluding themselves.

Of course, people trying to get carried leads to poisoning the well to a point where most will set their PF groups to "Duty Complete", making the difficulty actually ramp up the older the content becomes, as the pool of available players eventually filters down to those who for whatever reason have trouble clearing, be it lack of time, bad luck or lower skill. This is where the timegated gearing actually helps, at it slowly and smoothly lowers the skill required to clear by making DPS checks more lenient without taking away the challenge in the first few weeks. But this really is a different discussion from the original question of the loot lockout system, though it illustrates one of its merits.

Predatory "Fear of Missing Out" design to keep you subbed.

People will defend it, say its always been that way so its fine, but thats the truth. Its like that so you can't rush to BiS, so they can make more sub money.

Fear of missing out would imply that there is something to miss by not getting your BiS fast enough, which there is only a single instance of: Ultimates. Otherwise, every raid tier is unlocked a few weeks before the next patch where you might need the item level, that being the next patch with another Savage raid tier (6.18 or 6.19 will see P1-4S unlocked so people who truly had bad luck can grab the remaining gear they need from that tier in time for 6.2, etc.). Even then, Savage gear is already irrelevant by the time the next savage patch releases, as it is superseeded immediately by the new crafted sets with pentamelds, and then by the new tomestone currency gear. And with older tomestones being phased out, the now non-limited tomestones can then immediately buy the old unupgraded gear, meaning people are at most 10 iLevels behind the previous BiS iLevel.
XIV makes playing catchup with iLevel super easy and there is pretty much nothing to miss out on. Gear progression is too vertical in this game for that.

As for the one thing you can technically miss out on:
If you are getting ready for an Ultimate on a following patch, you have around 4 months to do so, which is twice the amount of weeks you'd actually need to fully gear assuming you clear everything week 1. This ensures even if you need both chest and weapon from the final floor of the current Savage, you can pull it off easily even if you never get any coffers. You'll even have a few weeks to spare left over since Ultimates release with a week delay, meaning you usually got around 16 weeks in total.

Even if you take your sweet time with it and get your first clear after a month, you'll still have more than enough time to at minimum get to maximum iLevel, maybe even get your BiS in time. And not ending up with your exact BiS would mostly be an obstacle for World First racers who probably have no issue getting Savage done week 1 anyway. Not everyone else will, but everyone will at least easily be the needed iLevel to queue in.

I am by no means saying gearing at the moment is perfect. I've laid this out in another thread before, but there is an argument to be made that Square should look more carefully into what will end up BiS. Some classes, due to varying amounts of tomestone gear required for their BiS will need significantly more/less time in order to reach it. If Square were to fix something about savage gearing, it should be that.

[Deceptus]

Predatory "Fear of Missing Out" design to keep you subbed.

People will defend it, say its always been that way so its fine, but thats the truth. Its like that so you can't rush to BiS, so they can make more sub money.

Pretty much any gated system is done the way it is for the simple reason: To keep the monthly sub money coming in.

[RyuDragnier]

Pretty much any gated system is done the way it is for the simple reason: To keep the monthly sub money coming in.

*looks at Guild Wars 2 and its lack of a subscription*

Are you SURE about that?

[Colt47]

Right now the design of the lockout system socially engineers people into single groups and forces resistance if someone attempts to join two or more groups, as the lockout impacts the maximum number of chests available for all parties. This is an absolute headache for anyone dealing with leading, as being a group leader does not necessarily imply that the group being led is the group that person wishes to progress with. E.g. the person in question is leading a 2 day static for newer players to the content and wants to still participate at a higher level of dedication in another static like a mid-HC one. The only way to get around this is to run two different characters and spend nearly twice the time due to having to unlock all the same content twice, or blitz the content so fast that the first group is done week 2, then sacrifice potential reclear consistency to man the 2 day casual run. It's a complete mess.

They probably did this because they wanted to avoid people selling savage wins to others, but that is par the course for any hardcore system and there is a price to pay for such heavy handed tactics in curbing those kinds of behaviors. Social engineering through system design is a VERY dangerous path, especially when it comes to systems that do not receive a lion share of feedback. Very few people start huge forum diatribes on savage compared to job related issues or some problem with character models, and honestly those are no where near as important as getting something like a lockout system done fairly.

Also, this is a very good reason to want some kind of actual conversation from the FFXIV team on the decisions for the lockout system in particular. Again, I've not found anything at all on it, and people just sit around and accept this as normal. If anything the savage lockout system being used is worse than the jumbo cactpot housing system, yet we're going to hear more on the housing than the savage lockout.

[Oizen]

Pretty much any gated system is done the way it is for the simple reason: To keep the monthly sub money coming in.

Are you saying the Corporation with a net worth of 6 billion dollars isn't my friend and are primarily profit driven?

no....