The Ancients still deserved better, after everything

[TaleraRistain]

???
They did have that fire to live and survive, after all they survived the final days.

By summoning a god to fix their problems for them. By doing exactly the same as they did with their creations when things didn't work out. Resetting things to try again. In a way, they gave in to despair even if dynamis couldn't directly affect them.

[NekoMataMata]

There wasn't really anything wrong with how they choose to operate their society, but I never really felt anyone had issue with that. People take issue with the idea that the ancients should be restored/saved(because apparently people think it should've happened). I don't know what people expected there though. Time travel in plots is always really messy and the way the plotline had set things up so far gave us no wiggle room.

What happened to the ancients was awful though and there's absolutely no reason to hate them. You are a bit cruel if you genuinely want to go along with the ascian plan of restoring the ancients though and I see many, many people who comment on how they would gladly take that path if they could.

[KizuyaKatogami]

By summoning a god to fix their problems for them. By doing exactly the same as they did with their creations when things didn't work out. Resetting things to try again. In a way, they gave in to despair even if dynamis couldn't directly affect them.

How is it any different from ironworks using knowledge from a primal to time travell and potentially doom trillions? How is it any different from all the sundered placing their hopes and solutions to their problems in the hands of the WoL?Or not to mention summoning primals to fix the Empty? Sounds like another rules for thee but not for me.

There wasn't really anything wrong with how they choose to operate their society, but I never really felt anyone had issue with that. People take issue with the idea that the ancients should be restored/saved(because apparently people think it should've happened). I don't know what people expected there though. Time travel in plots is always really messy and the way the plotline had set things up so far gave us no wiggle room.

What happened to the ancients was awful though and there's absolutely no reason to hate them. You are a bit cruel if you genuinely want to go along with the ascian plan of restoring the ancients though and I see many, many people who comment on how they would gladly take that path if they could.

So its cruel if the ascians do it but its okay if graha and ironworks sacrifice an entire timeline full of worlds?

[AnEmissary]

You are a bit cruel if you genuinely want to go along with the ascian plan of restoring the ancients though and I see many, many people who comment on how they would gladly take that path if they could.

This may be a sign we're viewing the story through radically different cultural lenses, but I have to ask: what do you consider cruel about the process of reconciliation and restoration? In my mind it's far more cruel to force the surviving members of the culture to live isolated, even segregated, lives in diaspora. The only justice to be found is in correcting the initial act which led to that, which in this case is the Sundering.

[Elesh]

This may be a sign we're viewing the story through radically different cultural lenses, but I have to ask: what do you consider cruel about the process of reconciliation and restoration? In my mind it's far more cruel to force the surviving members of the culture to live isolated, even segregated, lives in diaspora. The only justice to be found is in correcting the initial act which led to that, which in this case is the Sundering.

A superior species should consume all lesser species to pursue perfection, eh?

[AnEmissary]

A superior species should consume all lesser species to pursue perfection, eh?

No. Land belongs to its native peoples, not to the later colonizers--no matter the time passed, nor how well entrenched they have become. A century, a millenium, several millenia: it matters not. Decolonization is essential, by force if necessary, for justice to be done.

[NekoMataMata]

This may be a sign we're viewing the story through radically different cultural lenses, but I have to ask: what do you consider cruel about the process of reconciliation and restoration? In my mind it's far more cruel to force the surviving members of the culture to live isolated, even segregated, lives in diaspora. The only justice to be found is in correcting the initial act which led to that, which in this case is the Sundering.

The process of reconciliation required the deaths of the many new life forms that were created. I understand that from many people's views the ancients should be restored as they were a better overall civilization(at least in their opinions) than what came after.

But I can't really bring myself to agree. All lives are precious and it's a shame that the survivors of the sundering could not truly be integrated into the newer societies peacefully.

So its cruel if the ascians do it but its okay if graha and ironworks sacrifice an entire timeline full of worlds?

I never said that was okay either. It's not. Nature should run its course sadly.

[TaleraRistain]

How is it any different from ironworks using knowledge from a primal to time travell and potentially doom trillions? How is it any different from all the sundered placing their hopes and solutions to their problems in the hands of the WoL?Or not to mention summoning primals to fix the Empty? Sounds like another rules for thee but not for me.

I think those in the other timeline gave in to despair, too. We got the impression their world was pretty bad off. But they looked to the past like the Ancients did. I thought it was rather poetic there that as Middy had come to Etheirys because it meant hope, he was able to become the hope for that timeline and allow them to look to the future again.

Have you ever seen a situation where every is losing it except that one person? They keep things together because they have to. That's our WoL. I think that's part of why the Scions told the world they had disbanded. Time to find their own solutions for once.

As far as the Empty, I don't believe there was any indication in the story there that we were going to harm anything with summoning. We were attempting to kickstart the elements again since they had stagnated due to overexposure to Light. If you're approaching it from the idea of looking into the past, it's not really that. That land can't support life anymore. We weren't restoring it entirely to what it was before. We were making it viable to whatever life grew there from that point onward.

[anhaato]

By summoning a god to fix their problems for them. By doing exactly the same as they did with their creations when things didn't work out. Resetting things to try again. In a way, they gave in to despair even if dynamis couldn't directly affect them.

When you're at war going into battle with gunfire make sure not to wear body armor, you're using manmade materials to fix your problems for you. You're kinda giving into despair already by doing that :/

[Elesh]

No. Land belongs to its native peoples, not to the later colonizers--no matter the time passed, nor how well entrenched they have become. A century, a millenium, several millenia: it matters not. Decolonization is essential, by force if necessary, for justice to be done.

This doesn't apply here at all, actually.

The world was split into 14 pieces. Each of those 14 pieces had a portion of the ORIGINAL NATIVE PEOPLE on it. So the land WAS Still in the hands of the native peoples, just... fragments of them. With the exception, I guess, of the dragons who came later. So I guess you're asking us to evict the dragons.

So regardless of how you look at it, the land WAS in the hand of its 'native people'. They were just spread out over 14 worlds in stead of 1.

However, to take the possible argument of 'well the fractured people weren't the same people' - then the fractured WORLD wasn't the same world either, and the Ancients' world was completely destroyed and thus they HAD NO LAND to claim and the people who originally settled the 14 shards WERE the 'native people' of those shards, and thus it would be wrong for the AScians to claim the new world as their own as if they had a right to it.

Either way... your argument HERE is not applicable to this specific situation.