They Should Add An Official Damage Meter With One Condition

[Saraide]

Ah, the Motte and Bailey switch I knew was coming next.

So where's the problem? Rules exist for a reason. In theory, at least. Good rules should be written with attention paid to their foundational reasoning. Why are parsers against the TOS? I've heard over and over and over and over and over and over again that it's the harassment potential.

And the moment we point at a prominent example where the *stated reason* behind that rule wasn't in play at all, said rule was enforced anyway. So what is the takeaway from this? It's certainly not "harassment is bad". It's "third party tools are punishable if 5chan gets mad about it".

Claiming it's about harassment potential, then when confronted with the fact that public, visible enforcement has nothing whatsoever to do with harassment fleeing to the Motte of "who cares it's against the rules either way SO THERE" is a boring trick. Save it for the tourists. Your beef isn't with harassment, it's with the existence of facts. Stats. Math.

The classic it's bad because it's against the rules and it's against the rules because it's bad circle. If you get someone to break out of that, let me know. People like that would be upset about freeing slaves because it was technically against the law.

[Bobby66]

Think it so more has to do with the idea that the laws should be changed to reflect the new change in view. Though if someone went onto a person's land to free their slaves sure what they did was right but if they got shot or jailed for such an action tbh I doubt they would epeshocked: when they were found to have broken the law.

I am sorry asking for forgiveness instead of permission is a silly concept and that is what this largely boils down to.

[Saraide]

Think it so more has to do with the idea that the laws should be changed to reflect the new change in view. Though if someone went onto a person's land to free their slaves sure what they did was right but if they got shot or jailed for such an action tbh I doubt they would epeshocked: when they were found to have broken the law.

I am sorry asking for forgiveness instead of permission is a silly concept and that is what this largely boils down to.

Where does this gloating come from? Could it happen, yea sure. Is there any sense in it happening this way? Not really. People send those reports, people handle those reports, people decide on how to act on them. The people sending those brigade reports are bad actors so I am aware dishonest people exist but the people handling reports (and thus doing the moderation) should be held to a higher standard because they hold more power. Just because something isnt surprising doesnt mean we should just roll over and be okay with it. Ignoring and defying unjust laws is the civil duty of everyone, the scale of that varies of course from one issue to the next but the principle is the same.

All these rule lawyer posts boil down to well you shouldnt be surprised. Okay, so what? That doesnt make the underlying issue any smarter.

[Jaquan]

Let me ask you this. If someone suddenly told you you scored 12 points and left it at this would it mean anything? No extra information, no context nothing. Just a number. And that's what DPS meter would be in vacuum. There's really a lot of work that's needed to be done if there's ever going to be serious attempt at using Damage Meter as an improvement tool for players there's a lot of data you actively need provide at moment's notice. What's average damage? How does Player's performance compare to it? What's practically achievable maximum at any stadium if the class progression? How much of that is actively required to clear content at given level and difficulty. Without this data to draw on the Damage Meter isn't different from any random scoring method. Just assigning score among party members without putting it into context doesn't invoke Improvement but may lead to even more toxic interactions even if they wouldn't cross the lines marked by ToS. We're already damn creative at being pricks to one another without breaking it.

Ultimately it's not a bad idea but it's something that would require titanic effort to implement right. Effort that neither Devs or community is willing to put.

[SwingLifeAway]

Ultimately it's not a bad idea but it's something that would require titanic effort to implement right. Effort that neither Devs or community is willing to put.

So then just let us use our own without being afraid of eating a ban because some puritanical loser wants to do a funny?

[Warpstone]

I'm glad all the addons are not in FF. I've seen everything drop dead in dungeons fast and people still complain about dps. Why? We are not dying every 5 seconds and the run is going fine, but god forbid some one does 1 dps to low, the world might end. Keep addons out of ffxiv.

[VerdeLuck]

So then just let us use our own without being afraid of eating a ban because some puritanical loser wants to do a funny?

Nothing is currently stopping you from that unless you stream or are toxic to other players with it. The fact you're so concerned about being banned for it would seem to suggest, like when people were upset of the TOS "not letting them give advice anymore", that you're probably using it to be toxic and want a free pass to do it. You're not going to get that.

[Bobby66]

Where does this gloating come from? Could it happen, yea sure. Is there any sense in it happening this way? Not really. People send those reports, people handle those reports, people decide on how to act on them. The people sending those brigade reports are bad actors so I am aware dishonest people exist but the people handling reports (and thus doing the moderation) should be held to a higher standard because they hold more power. Just because something isnt surprising doesnt mean we should just roll over and be okay with it. Ignoring and defying unjust laws is the civil duty of everyone, the scale of that varies of course from one issue to the next but the principle is the same.

All these rule lawyer posts boil down to well you shouldnt be surprised. Okay, so what? That doesnt make the underlying issue any smarter.

Cause that is the thing people are acting shocked, and honestly they have no reason to be shocked. I agree we should discuses the rules and how they do not reflect the current needs, but that does not mean that those that have been caught in the cross fire of breaking the rules should be treated as those that did not break the rules. Until they rules are changed the should be treated like any other rule breaker even if their reasoning behind breaking the rules is a noble one. It is a civil duty to defy unjust laws sure, but in doing so one must understand the inherent risk that comes with standing up to so called injustice or unjust laws / practices. Also let us be real people were not using this mods as a means of standing up to unjust rules, they were doing it solely out of convenience. These actions were not done as a means of trying to right some wrong or stand up for the little guy who uses tools for accessibility reasons.

[Saraide]

Cause that is the thing people are acting shocked, and honestly they have no reason to be shocked. I agree we should discuses the rules and how they do not reflect the current needs, but that does not mean that those that have been caught in the cross fire of breaking the rules should be treated as those that did not break the rules. Until they rules are changed the should be treated like any other rule breaker even if their reasoning behind breaking the rules is a noble one. It is a civil duty to defy unjust laws sure, but in doing so one must understand the inherent risk that comes with standing up to so called injustice or unjust laws / practices. Also let us be real people were not using this mods as a means of standing up to unjust rules, they were doing it solely out of convenience. These actions were not done as a means of trying to right some wrong or stand up for the little guy who uses tools for accessibility reasons.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble here but the point of these threads is not "surprise".

[Bobby66]

I'm sorry to burst your bubble here but the point of these threads is not "surprise".

Aye, yeah the point of the all these threads are to have a civil discussion about how certain features should be added to the game as a baseline. Hardly any of them are about how silly it is to be punished for breaking a rule regarding 3rd party tools.