What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Elesh]

A lot of people seem to be missing the point of Venat's actions...

She was faced with imminent, absolute death of everything... or having to be a villain to her people so that a new people could have a chance at saving SOME form of life.

She chose the latter. She wasn't 'absolute good', and she is absolutely justifiably seen as evil to those she harmed... but the alternative was what? Meteion quashing literally all forms of life and leaving the universe with literally nothing in it.

So like... ya. She's not 'super good guy who was unambiguously good!' but if she was... that'd be boring. She was put in the difficult decision: Destroy her world so that SOME world could live... or let everything die in exchange for her world having a little bit of extra time. Tough decision. The decision she made, at least currently, appears to have been the correct one. We stopped the 'final days'. Her people most likely couldn't have - they were too aetherically strong to deal with the dynamis. But... was there another way? Maybe. We'll never know.

She committed awful acts but in doing so secured a future for life as a concept.

[Rulakir]

She was faced with imminent, absolute death of everything... or having to be a villain to her people so that a new people could have a chance at saving SOME form of life.

No, she wasn't, the Final Days had been averted by Zodiark. There was no further risk to the star nor would there be for at least 12k years, which she knew.

[redheadturk]

A lot of people seem to be missing the point of Venat's actions...

She was faced with imminent, absolute death of everything... or having to be a villain to her people so that a new people could have a chance at saving SOME form of life.

She chose the latter. She wasn't 'absolute good', and she is absolutely justifiably seen as evil to those she harmed... but the alternative was what? Meteion quashing literally all forms of life and leaving the universe with literally nothing in it.

So like... ya. She's not 'super good guy who was unambiguously good!' but if she was... that'd be boring. She was put in the difficult decision: Destroy her world so that SOME world could live... or let everything die in exchange for her world having a little bit of extra time. Tough decision. The decision she made, at least currently, appears to have been the correct one. We stopped the 'final days'. Her people most likely couldn't have - they were too aetherically strong to deal with the dynamis. But... was there another way? Maybe. We'll never know.

She committed awful acts but in doing so secured a future for life as a concept.

Or. . .maybe tell her people what was going on so that a select group of them could be sundered, deal with the problem and then be rejoined. But her not telling them what was going on is what doomed them. That, my friend, is genocide very much clear cut.

[Skyborne]

The beauty of storytelling is that it is fundamentally subjective. I'm sad that you didn't enjoy the story. But the point of the story in Endwalker was that it was an enjoyable story for a large segment of people who fall into the 'not you' category of the world.

A lot of people seem to be missing the point of Venat's actions...

She was faced with imminent, absolute death of everything... or having to be a villain to her people so that a new people could have a chance at saving SOME form of life.

She chose the latter. She wasn't 'absolute good', and she is absolutely justifiably seen as evil to those she harmed... but the alternative was what? Meteion quashing literally all forms of life and leaving the universe with literally nothing in it.

Her people most likely couldn't have - they were too aetherically strong to deal with the dynamis.

She committed awful acts but in doing so secured a future for life as a concept.

Two posts in and my "Standard Endwalker Defense That Has Already Been Argued About In Pages Past" bingo has already been filled, well done. Here, take my blessing!

But... was there another way? Maybe. We'll never know.

Yeah... perhaps another way that would not have been the figurative one-eyed man with a monopoly over information lording over and using all the blind as pawns (but remember, she just loves us!). Meanwhile, I will forever wonder what went wrong with the lore that I liked for ~7 years and how they managed to destroy it all in one "Burning of TelAmaurot" scene. And the slow-motion carcrash that was Ultima Thule (liked the instrumental music though).

[HollowedDoll]

Mommy's beauty mommy's grace
she will genocide your entire race

Amen Mommy Hydaelyn

[anhaato]

Some of the zones are so disconnected from one another that I do suspect that the rewrites were more than just at a surface level. It wouldn't surprise me if certain zones were originally meant to be played in a different order and potentially with a completely different context as well.

Knowing that Eden was originally meant to be the final boss of Shadowbringers only to become the focus of a 24-man raid instead, it's also entirely possible that models made for a different purpose were instead quietly reused elsewhere.

You mean to tell me that we could've saved killing Hades for 5.3 thus allowing Elidibus to live through 6.0 and get a worthy conclusion to his arc as he relates to Zodiark? Now you've just made me mad.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I actually disagree with this assessment.

I enjoyed the fact that the story made me give a measure of respect to a character I once disliked a great deal. I like the fact that, by Endwalker, he is actually pretty unimportant/not really a priority to the WoL - he realises this and decides to not let that bother him. Whilst everyone else is pondering the meaning of happiness, here is a guy who found it and knows that all he needs to learn is how to reach it. And he does, because when Alisaie calls him out, he listens.

And he was right about us, when he identified our 'Adventurer' roots. and recognized that we were heroes through circumstance and a need to do the right thing, rather than choice, and the way we fight reflects that. I feel the only answer that wasn't dishonest was "That, I can't deny" (and the grin that my character gave when she said that is one of best things my character has ever done) when he tells us he knows what we are.

I have to add that I truly enjoyed the fight. We were never really on equal terms with him until this fight, and due to that he truly doesn't hold anything back. He pours everything he is in that fight and so do we. Two souls burning their absolute hottest and brightest - the greatest joy Zenos has ever known and the only joy he can ever share, in stark contrast to the theme of despair that the 'zone' had been about.

The thing is though….we did all of this already. It’s boring and stale. We fought him solo, numerous times including the final fight. He was so content that he took his own life. Why bring him back only to repeat literally the same exact story line that added absolutely nothing to the overall story arc besides take up time that could’ve been spent towards yknow….the two main deities this arc has revolved around?

[BaconBits]

The Ancients whipped up Zodiark with virtually no prep time. A Creation so powerful, he kept Eitherys shielded for 12k years, while sundered at that.

Imagine what they could do if they weren't hindered by a lack of information.

[Lauront]

No but seriously. EW literally turned me into a cutscene skipper. I feel so silly spending so much time looking into the lore..and then seeing the joke they gave us as an ending to a 10 year arc. At this point I wish I could have enjoyed it. But now I'm just a jaded player that chuckles a little when I see an excited sprout "Aww yeah I remember when I was excited to play this game..."

And as a bonus, we're going to ignore Elpis sidequests and Amaurot, and go with the idea that... they're just gods, doing godly things to each other, so you see, it's more like a mythological origin story, and it's hard to see that as genocides or see it as an atrocity... again, just gods doing godly things to each other! All that effort humanising them, showing they valued debate etc? Nope, the ancient thing to do is a bit of casual totally-not-genocide (come now, you're creating life... if we ignore the minor cost of the ancients going extinct...) whenever someone reacts the wrong way emotionally to your pearls of wisdom! Or better yet, dooming the entirety of the universe because you, fine Overseer of Elpis, are the only person with feelings and totally not someone with their head firmly entrenched up their buttocks most if not all of the time. A veritable first step for mankind!

[Teraq]

Was what the Joker did wrong, or was it the first step for Gotham City? bottom text