*Spoilers* Anyone feel joining Emet would have been better

[Ralphe2449]

So the only thing that matters is being powerful? There’s no end goal behind that? Might makes right and all?

Might does not make right, but might doesnt give a damn about what is right because it does what it wants and cant be stopped by anything other than an equal force of often might.

If the only thing preventing someone from being a monster is getting what he wants, then I’d say they are a child throwing a tantrum.

I was referring to individuals who dont moan or cry about fate and simply find a way to get what they want, in any way possible, they are not limited by "morality" unlike some therefore they have more tools to get what they want.

I do remember the game going to the great lengths to show how difficult the change was so I’m not sure this is an accurate description.

I wont disagree but it is limited by its medium as a video game, it needs to say a story, it cannot wait decades to show the end result and slow progress since well, not really possible.

They would accept being Sundered?

Accept losing their godlike powers? Accepting dying so early you barely discover a small of reality?
Again the objective value of such powers is enormous, it isnt like you lost a finger

I would suggest telling the Ancients and the writers that then friend. They seem to disagree.

Well yeah, they wanted to tell a somewhat satisfying story to most so of course they did, I wasnt a big fun of the unrealistic happy ending either though the journey was done quite well.
Still dont feel Emet was depicted like he should considering the SHB baseline.

Sure rebuilding is important. But so is remembering the event and trying your best to help others. The third sacrifice, as well as the statements of the Ancients through ShB and EW do not indicate that they were doing that.

The goal is rebuilding, they arent gonna forget the final days obviously since it would be a subject worth researching.

Another issue I have with the writing, they took the ancients from an ultra honestly overpowered position and made them desperate and easily panicked people who suddenly stopped caring about everything and obsessed over zodiarc sacrifices, like going from a highly intelligent species to a highly emotional species.

Like I am not against what they were planning, but it did feel extremely rushed and emotional rather than carefully planned.

I mean, eh? The Warrior of Light was able to battle Venat evenly in a friendly spar as well as triumph over several prototypes of Lahabrea's masterworks in Pandaemonium. The Warrior of Light (with of lots of help) also triumphs over multiple unsundered beings, including Emet-Selch and Hesperos. Saying that any unsundered could just "smite" a sundered being with a wave of their hand is overstating things a little.

I mean let's be honest, it is a video game and the good guy has to win somehow no matter how impossible the odds.

And if we are to follow the lore it would be as Emet said, "we would be as leaves in the wind" compared to him power wise since he is unsundered even when he was emotional unbalanced due to you having the soul of Azem.

Though let's not forget hydaelin's blessing since she is a primal of ancient time she must have considerable power to give so that could possibly balance the scales a bit, even Venat says she sees her blessing on you so it is the only way I am choosing to believe we are able to contest against unsundered individuals.

We don't know what life is like outside of Amaurot and we only have Emet's (heavily biased) narration to go by.

This feels like the same argument before shb and sometimes even during Shb "Well we dont know, Zodiarc might be some l33t ultra evil literally the devil primal that has totally compelled Emet do and believe all the things he said" even though we knew Primals dont have a personal will, their will is the purpose they were created for.
At this point it is just extreme speculation to justify your position

After all, if they were really research focused they would have more curiosity about dynamis in the first place, instead of it being a random academic footnote, and Hermes wouldn't have been the only person ever involved in a space program.

I would assume that is because at that current moment they knew very little about dynamis and they were busy researching things that are far more tangible and will lead to a breakthrough quicker.

In time though dynamis would get its turn when the more high priority subjects were researched.
And hermes definitely seemed to be a bit damaged considering he somehow decided that the view of species extremely different and in different situations or worlds matters to him, rather than having the ability to hold his own view he needed support from space...

[QUOTE=Lyth;5958070]This is an MMORPG, sure. But if you're 'role-playing' a character as the term suggests, then you act in accordance with what that character would do in that circumstance, not what you want said character to do.[quote]
The term roleplay does not mean you have to play somebody other than yourself, you can very easily "roleplay" yourself in that world/universe/environement etc

[Dikatis]

Another issue I have with the writing, they took the ancients from an ultra honestly overpowered position and made them desperate and easily panicked people who suddenly stopped caring about everything and obsessed over zodiarc sacrifices, like going from a highly intelligent species to a highly emotional species.

Like I am not against what they were planning, but it did feel extremely rushed and emotional rather than carefully planned.

But the ancients aren't robots. Emet-Selch's phantom Amaurot is explicitly his nostalgia-ridden intepretation of his people as infinitely benevolent, wise, and compassionate creatures. In truth, they had all the foibles of the "lesser" beings they reincarnated into including a very understandable fear of the skies turning red, meteors dropping out of the sky, and their creations turned into Lovecraftian abominations.

I was referring to individuals who dont moan or cry about fate and simply find a way to get what they want, in any way possible, they are not limited by "morality" unlike some therefore they have more tools to get what they want.

So you're simultaneously referring to the ancients as morally and intellectually superior beings while also saying that they should resort to any sort of morally depraved means to get what they want? The ancients were constantly bemoaning their fate and could not fathom a way to get out of their predicament other than Zodiark. Venat's fear is that they would end up sacrificing themselves and producing a society not unlike the Plenty, which summarily offed itself once it ran out of things to do.

I mean let's be honest, it is a video game and the good guy has to win somehow no matter how impossible the odds.

And if we are to follow the lore it would be as Emet said, "we would be as leaves in the wind" compared to him power wise since he is unsundered even when he was emotional unbalanced due to you having the soul of Azem.

Though let's not forget hydaelin's blessing since she is a primal of ancient time she must have considerable power to give so that could possibly balance the scales a bit, even Venat says she sees her blessing on you so it is the only way I am choosing to believe we are able to contest against unsundered individuals.

Yes, we had help, but we still won. Emet brought his full strength to bear against us in the final battle and we won. Barely, but a victory is a victory even if it was a collaborative effort.

Elidibus also freaks out upon seeing Zenos, a sundered being who should be swatted like a fly by your logic, and hightails it rather than fighting him despite possessing Zenos' superior body. So the Unsundered, while extremely powerful, are not insurmountable.

Besides, we've triumphed over other unsundered beings of godlike power before like Nidhogg and Omega (again with help, but we beat them, with Hraesvelgr noting that it was the WoL's skill that won the day, his eye just evened the power levels). Being unsundered is not an automatic, "I am always better than you."

This feels like the same argument before shb and sometimes even during Shb "Well we dont know, Zodiarc might be some l33t ultra evil literally the devil primal that has totally compelled Emet do and believe all the things he said" even though we knew Primals dont have a personal will, their will is the purpose they were created for.
At this point it is just extreme speculation to justify your position

It's not even just speculation though. For as much as Emet-Selch calls Amaurot a paradise, there are clear and glaring problems with its society. The emphasis on conformity and working toward the benefit of the whole at the expense of the individual means that people who don't fit in feel they have nowhere to go. Hermes is tortured by how he seems to be the only one with empathy for the creations he and his researchers create and unmake on a regular basis. Erichthonios constantly feels overshadowed by his parents and Hesperos mocks him for being inept compared to them.

The ancients' extreme lack of empathy for "lesser" life is part of what set forth the Final Days in earnest, triggering Hermes' desperation to find answers and pushing him over the edge entirely when Emet-Selch asks, "Who are you to judge whether we live or die?" when the ancients did just that on a regular basis. One FATE chain has an Elpis researcher conjure life just for you to slaughter it as a means of deriving some entertainment and inspiration.

The ancients were also suffering from creative sterility and literally could not think of ways of solving their problems other than through their creation magics. In Elpis, WoL has to explain adaptations they've encountered in their travels to solve the issues with the Elpis' researchers creations that they could not themselves. One researcher even says that she's been holed up in Amaurot so long that she had no idea such things could exist. Emet-Selch is blindsided by G'raha's efforts to avert the 8UC because the idea of time travel and traveling across the rift without sacrificing your physical form were all beyond the Ascians.

Amaurot isn't perfect. Chances are the world outside of it is also just as flawed.

I would assume that is because at that current moment they knew very little about dynamis and they were busy researching things that are far more tangible and will lead to a breakthrough quicker.

In time though dynamis would get its turn when the more high priority subjects were researched.
And hermes definitely seemed to be a bit damaged considering he somehow decided that the view of species extremely different and in different situations or worlds matters to him, rather than having the ability to hold his own view he needed support from space...

NO ONE was researching dynamis though. Hermes is literally the only man with a working understanding of it beyond the fact that it exists. Even Venat and Emet-Selch, two of the most accomplished and intelligent members of the Convocation, hadn't heard of it before Hermes explained it to them. Hermes abandoned his research in his grief over "Meteion's destruction". All of his efforts into facilitating Zodiark were looking into aether currents, not dynamis.

[Slatersev]

NO ONE was researching dynamis though. Hermes is literally the only man with a working understanding of it beyond the fact that it exists. Even Venat and Emet-Selch, two of the most accomplished and intelligent members of the Convocation, hadn't heard of it before Hermes explained it to them. Hermes abandoned his research in his grief over "Meteion's destruction". All of his efforts into facilitating Zodiark were looking into aether currents, not dynamis.

Venat says she has heard of it, but in the same way a real life person would be aware of the concept of "Dark Matter" IE without any real depth of knowledge regarding what it actually is and can do. Which makes sense, nobody in the real world has any actual idea of what Dark Matter actually is.