New Missaphenchair video makes great point about the direction of job design

[Leemon]

'. Essentially making video versions of what takes place on these forums.

Isn't that what we want? To make our voices heard so devs would take this stuff more seriously? Idk but i'm grateful they did that. Numbers will tell in the end.

As for My SAM, they are immortalized in Monster Hunter. I'm having a blast, and at least devs there care about their old playerbase. I'd willing to bet these changes that SE makes just want the growth to continue, which is nearly impossible considering how successful EW launch was.

My 14-day forum period is gonna be over soon so good luck guys. Try MH for real, if you havent tried it yet.

[Ruminous]

Isn't that what we want? To make our voices heard so devs would take this stuff more seriously? Idk but i'm grateful they did that. Numbers will tell in the end.

As for My SAM, they are immortalized in Monster Hunter. I'm having a blast, and at least devs there care about their old playerbase. I'd willing to bet these changes that SE makes just want the growth to continue, which is nearly impossible considering how successful EW launch was.

My 14-day forum period is gonna be over soon so good luck guys. Try MH for real, if you havent tried it yet.

Using the power of pure weeb causing cringe damage to kill your target monster.

[Leemon]

Using the power of pure weeb causing cringe damage to kill your target monster.

Amen. I've embraced ny inner weeb.

[Ruminous]

Hey, I couldn't help but reference the crap guide videos. They helped me picked my weapon of choice.

[LeonKeyh]

The whole clean up for the far future makes no sense though - why would you remove a job mechanism year 1 and add a replacement year 2? Yes, you probably have to start working on it little by little behind the scenes, but hold off on actually publishing seemingly pointless incremental changes. I would understand if they changed anything else that would make Kaiten problematic, but they didn't. Even if it's eventually necessary to remove it, there's zero reason not to push it back to a later release.

It makes perfect sense.

Because there's an expectation for jobs to grow during every expansion and if jobs just grow and grow they become overly complex.

Kaiten was removed because of "action bloat." and was another example of them not thinking through their decision. They obviously have an idea about where APM should fall for various jobs and felt that SAM was "too high" with Kaiten and removed it in order to pull down the APM. The thing is, they didn't think it through and now instead of hitting Kaiten you're just hitting Shinten (albeit not 1:1 replacement).... My guess is the next change is lowering Kenki generation for SAM and then you have actually cleared up some APM for SAM and can build on top of it without making it "too complex."

[CelestiCer]

It makes perfect sense.

Because there's an expectation for jobs to grow during every expansion and if jobs just grow and grow they become overly complex.

Kaiten was removed because of "action bloat." and was another example of them not thinking through their decision. They obviously have an idea about where APM should fall for various jobs and felt that SAM was "too high" with Kaiten and removed it in order to pull down the APM. The thing is, they didn't think it through and now instead of hitting Kaiten you're just hitting Shinten (albeit not 1:1 replacement).... My guess is the next change is lowering Kenki generation for SAM and then you have actually cleared up some APM for SAM and can build on top of it without making it "too complex."

Even if they used that excuse it's lacking. Xenos_S made a very good " Examination Thread " <- here.

Kaiten removal did absolutely nothing to reduce Action Bloat. We even weave Gyoten into our opener now because Shinten potency is the same as Gyoten. As for Action Bloat in general, other jobs suffer more then Samurai from it so that's not a good excuse either.

As for changing the Job to implement new skills sounds reasonable, if they actually gave new skills vs just removing skills and not replacing them with anything so that's also a bad excuse.

Heck if we're going to talk about " the necessity for Jobs to grow every expansion " as in this necessity to change? Well we didn't ask for any of these changes, majority were happy with how Samurai was? and lastly... look at this picture and tell me if something is off...



So needing to change a job for it to grow? Not every job changed drastically to grow, and...
there's even one job that stands out for not having got any changes at all. Why? hell if I know.

[AsiTsurugi]

snip

Just wanted to add to what CelestiCer said.

Why change SAM in 6.1 with whatever excuse they spewed? If it was indeed for DSR ultimate, which Yoshida was "really really sorry" for delaying from 5.5 (when he said it was almost complete, mind you), 6.0 was a great time to make these changes. Why gut the job feel now instead of during launch of 6.0 if DSR was indeed "almost complete" in 5.5?

There would have still been complaints and a comparative level of uproar, but at least people would have had the option to gear up a different job that they enjoy more for the ultimate, instead of thrusting this on us two weeks before said ultimate release. If incorporating these changes was not important enough for 6.0, why not delay it till 7.0? Where is the explanation for ANY of SAM's changes instead of "just adjust" that Yoshida said during patch notes reading?

Oh and BLM still has a ton of button bloat and is just untouched. Why? Was that "button bloat" not an issue that affects anything other than SAM? Was "damage variance" not an issue with NIN, DNC, PLD, GNB etc.? Why single out SAM to ruin the job feel to thrust their absolutely stupid "balancing by spreadsheet" nonsense on us?

The issue here is not *just* the changes. It's the drastic changes to the job with express purpose of ruining the job's identity and gameplay with no explanation, and not nearly enough time to gear a new job for the ultimate because Yoshida's brilliant "dev team" things gating gear behind eight weeks of tomestone grinding is "fun content".

Again, as another poster said above, WHO ARE THESE CHANGES FOR? Because they sure as hell are not for the players, hardcore or casual, otherwise you wouldn't be seeing such unanimous uproar across multiple language forums about this. If it is for the dev team to make their work easier, unfortunately for them, it's their job to balance content and jobs without ruining them for the playerbase; it is not the playerbase's job to adjust for the dev team's incompetence and tone-deafness.

[Kolsykol]

A well designed job benefits players of all skill levels, while poorly thought-out changes only alienate the dedicated players.

Case and point, when have you heard a BLM player complain about their job design?

BLM has definitely gotten easier with all their instant casts, funnily enough quite a lot ( perhaps the majority ) of BLM still don't utilize it tho lol.
Not saying that's a bad thing, BLM has only felt like it improved with time imo, but some people just can't be helped.
And I do see people still complain about it and that there's '' too much movement ''.
But having basically 100% uptime on BLM now should be pretty easy in most cases.

[YukiB]

BLM has definitely gotten easier with all their instant casts, funnily enough quite a lot ( perhaps the majority ) of BLM still don't utilize it tho lol.
Not saying that's a bad thing, BLM has only felt like it improved with time imo, but some people just can't be helped.
And I do see people still complain about it and that there's '' too much movement ''.
But having basically 100% uptime on BLM now should be pretty easy in most cases.

That's the thing. BLM has gotten easier but it still maintains a high skill ceiling. They lowered the skill floor by adding more instant casts, easier maintenance of Thunder/Sharpcast, and dropping the potentially crippling punishment of Enochian being an oGCD with a cooldown. But the gameplay loop is the same, and there's still a lot of skill and planning involved in managing instant cast weave windows, keeping Thunder up without hardcasts or clipping, utilizing the charges of Triplecast for movement, etc. Also the opener feels great now with Amplifier and 2 Triplecasts. It's a perfect example of how you can make a job more accessible without changing what makes advanced players like it.

And yet, what did they get that's "new"? They got visual and potency upgrades to their aoe spells, an oGCD that gives them a Polyglot, charges of Sharpcast, and a visual and potency upgrade to their fire phase filler spell. There's practically no change to the rotation apart from an extra cast in ice phase. And people are happy with that. It's also a perfect example of how to "grow" a job without fundamentally altering it or introducing bloat.

If other jobs got half that much love every expansion, we'd all be happy.

[AsiTsurugi]

That's the thing. BLM has gotten easier but it still maintains a high skill ceiling. They lowered the skill floor by adding more instant casts, easier maintenance of Thunder/Sharpcast, and dropping the potentially crippling punishment of Enochian being an oGCD with a cooldown. But the gameplay loop is the same, and there's still a lot of skill and planning involved in managing instant cast weave windows, keeping Thunder up without hardcasts or clipping, utilizing the charges of Triplecast for movement, etc. Also the opener feels great now with Amplifier and 2 Triplecasts. It's a perfect example of how you can make a job more accessible without changing what makes advanced players like it.

And yet, what did they get that's "new"? They got visual and potency upgrades to their aoe spells, an oGCD that gives them a Polyglot, charges of Sharpcast, and a visual and potency upgrade to their fire phase filler spell. There's practically no change to the rotation apart from an extra cast in ice phase. And people are happy with that. It's also a perfect example of how to "grow" a job without fundamentally altering it or introducing bloat.

If other jobs got half that much love every expansion, we'd all be happy.

Just gotta make Yoshida play every job then.