Doesnt feel like the WoW migration improved the community.

[Moonsprite]

Pardon? I haven't played WoW in a hot minute so I looked up what the meta is currently for Mythic Plus, and I found... https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/mythic-healer-tier-list

Which ranks Holy Priest as the best pick LITERALLY BECAUSE they do the most healing per second, plus they have good utility.

Well, sorry they received major dmg buffs I didn’t know about since I’ve been playing ffxiv since 6.1 and their tier set bonuses. They still don’t have utility. This season is an outlier for them. Their utility is limited and only get taken if other dps/tanks have the meta utility needed for mythic +. My point still stands that they don’t have some engaging rotation. Do people really think spamming an aoe heal or a flash heal is more engaging and fun that spamming glare over and over? It’s the same. It isn’t fun.

[Shurrikhan]

Well, sorry they received major dmg buffs I didn’t know about since I’ve been playing ffxiv since 6.1 and their tier set bonuses. They still don’t have utility.

They have a 25% Haste buff they can grant to others, Rescue (but less buggy and more responsive and on a far shorter cooldown), a 4 second ranged stun, a party wide Esuna, a Sleep, a Death Prevention buff they can grant to others, and second status-effect cleansing type.

"Don't have utility"

...

My point still stands that they don’t have some engaging rotation. Do people really think spamming an aoe heal or a flash heal is more engaging and fun that spamming glare over and over? It’s the same. It isn’t fun.

Both Prayer of Healing (AoE) and Flash Heal (ST) usage should be minimized.

And Holy has atop this, rotationally...

• proc-producing DoTs,
• a healing-damaging boomerang skillshot or a massive propagating radial AoE they'd need to position for,
• an offensive nuke with either a sleep or stun depending on talents (and the CD of which they can reduce through their offensive filler spell for alignment/rush, giving more gamble to one's GCDs spent healing or attacking),
• synergy with their HoT and rotationally grantable buff, ramping and spendable buffs granted by their heals for preemptive burst healing, and
• (in typical builds) Lily-esque procs from their filler damage spell.

And all that's prior to any "borrowed powers" or gear effects or the general macrorotational priority changes of your filler AoE and filler ST heals each charging a respective AoE or ST nuke heal.

[Moonsprite]

They have a 25% Haste buff they can grant to others, Rescue (but less buggy and more responsive and on a far shorter cooldown), a 4 second ranged stun, a party wide Esuna, a Sleep, a Death Prevention buff they can grant to others, and second status-effect cleansing type.

"Don't have utility"

...



Both Prayer of Healing (AoE) and Flash Heal (ST) usage should be minimized.

And Holy has atop this, rotationally...

• proc-producing DoTs,
• a healing-damaging boomerang skillshot or a massive propagating radial AoE they'd need to position for,
• an offensive nuke with either a sleep or stun depending on talents (and the CD of which they can reduce through their offensive filler spell for alignment/rush, giving more gamble to one's GCDs spent healing or attacking),
• synergy with their HoT and rotationally grantable buff, ramping and spendable buffs granted by their heals for preemptive burst healing, and
• (in typical builds) Lily-esque procs from their filler damage spell.

And all that's prior to any "borrowed powers" or gear effects or the general macrorotational priority changes of your filler AoE and filler ST heals each charging a respective AoE or ST nuke heal.

So let’s talk about this. Holy priests for the first time ever are in this category because shadow priest fell down the dps charts. Usually shadow priest brings power infusion and mass dispel, fears. Holy priests got a buff that wasn’t there before because of Kyrian covenant boon of the ascended borrowed power. Censure is a 4 sec stun usually on a minute cooldown but reduced because of their new tier set. This is the first time since mythic + started that holy priest has ever been S class. It will be back at the bottom again next xpan. This is also the first season in WoWs history that survival hunter is doing well.

Tier sets changed the dynamics. Borrowed power gave holy priests an edge they didn’t have before. Sorry I misspoke about holy priests this season. I’m also well aware of the synergy between their aoe spells and casting sanctify and prayer of healing after. I know the class/spec. They don’t have a more complicated rotation that ffxiv healers. So you cast prayer of mending on your MT and trail of light you spam flash heal, even in raids. That’s more complicated than ffxiv healing? No it’s not.

The fact is compared to other healers usually holy priest falls short. Resto shaman brings way more utility than hpriest. I’m glad that hpriests have their moment this season, like I said it won’t last. My point still stands they don’t have a more complicated rotation.

[Shurrikhan]

So let’s talk about this. Holy priests for the first time ever are in this category because shadow priest fell down the dps charts. Usually shadow priest brings power infusion and mass dispel, fears.

Mate, you might as well make the claim that a WHM was allowed to play only because the AST was unavailable. Yes, a Shadow Priest has overlapping utility, but Shadow's not being meta outside of Bursting or Explosive weeks is nothing new. That's been the case nearly the whole expansion.

Censure is a 4 sec stun usually on a minute cooldown but reduced because of their new tier set.

This assumes you haven't time to cast a single filler attack. That's not the case.

Tier sets changed the dynamics. Borrowed power gave holy priests an edge they didn’t have before.

Indeed. Their tier benefits slightly outpaced those of competing "good for M+" healers. But your claim that they outright "don't have utility," even in comparative sense, has rarely ever been true; certainly not in the last 6 years.

This is the first time since mythic + started that holy priest has ever been S class. It will be back at the bottom again next xpac.

And there will always be a class at "the bottom". That's irrelevant. All that matters is whether the given choice is still (A) competitive, which ties strongly to actually having varied utility as to have at least moments or situations of higher relative value, and (B) fun, which ties strongly to having a distinct feel and flow.

That’s more complicated than ffxiv healing? No it’s not.

Raid healing is never going to be particularly interesting regardless. The XIV model involves planning almost everything out beforehand and then following that schedule while spamming 1 and the rare 2. The WoW model involves some level of critical planning atop reacting to the present situation and, on average, hitting buttons 1 through 3 per CDs and priority order, with more noticeable compromise and valuable gambles across a few healer specs there than any healer job here. It also might require actually looking at health bars --which, to be fair, isn't so thrilling as some make it sound-- instead of just hitting X after event Y.

The question is more one of synergy and shifting weights. In M+, killing key mobs is vital and a little more healer damage in the short term to, say, finish off a construct before it can self-heal, can go a long way in the mid term, thus increasing the sense of decision-making and variance in playflow actually available to healers. But in XIV content and encounter design, there are almost never any short term objectives, nor significant compromises or milestones to prepare for (even ones as simple as tank safety as you refresh a full SCH DoT suite or ensuring the tank will have what it needs over those 2-3 offensive GCDs over the next 5-7 seconds), to make healing and damage seem like actual decisions of variable weight. Planned and plannable healing is simply too strong and the active fights, that which you can't wholly plan for, too barren outside of DDR.

[Moonsprite]

Like I said before in another post, mythic + definitely has more emphasis on interrupting/cc than ffxiv (which doesn’t really exist). WoW isn’t ffxiv so there isn’t any reason to choose one healer over another in this game. I said I wouldn’t bring a holy priest unless I got the other utilities needed for mythic+ checklist first. In WoW it absolutely means picking the most viable class/spec. I still don’t think ffxiv healing is more complicated than WoW rotations, but ya I agree that you can’t whoops heal in WoW mythic + like you can in ffxiv content. The degree of difficulty in WoW doesn’t exist in this game. The fact that people can endlessly spam rezzes in ffxiv without wiping proves that.

[Rilifane]

Holy Priest has
- spammable filler spell (equivalent to Glare/ Broil/ Malefic/ Dosis)
- dot (equivalent to Dia/ Biolysis/ Combust/ EDosis) but only about half the duration
- Holy Fire on 10s cooldown
These 3 already provide a more engaging dps rotation than any healer here has because of the shorter duration of the dot and the short cooldown of Holy Fire.
- Shadow Word: Death on 30s cooldown
- Holy Word: Chastise on 60s cooldown with a cooldown reduction through Smite casts
While the latter isn't used on cooldown in raids, it definitely has a more engaging dps rotation than FFXIV healers.
The talent skills also deal damage although they're generally used or even kept on cooldown for their healing.

You can say what you want about WoW but healer dps rotations are in a much better state than in FFXIV in addition to healing being generally more intense and requiring decision making over planning. There is a reason for the many healer threads with some of them reaching 100+ pages. It IS an issue and it is something that WoW still does better. From leveling dungeons to endgame raids.

[Moonsprite]

Holy Priest has
- spammable filler spell (equivalent to Glare/ Broil/ Malefic/ Dosis)
- dot (equivalent to Dia/ Biolysis/ Combust/ EDosis) but only about half the duration
- Holy Fire on 10s cooldown
These 3 already provide a more engaging dps rotation than any healer here has because of the shorter duration of the dot and the short cooldown of Holy Fire.
- Shadow Word: Death on 30s cooldown
- Holy Word: Chastise on 60s cooldown with a cooldown reduction through Smite casts
While the latter isn't used on cooldown in raids, it definitely has a more engaging dps rotation than FFXIV healers.
The talent skills also deal damage although they're generally used or even kept on cooldown for their healing.

You can say what you want about WoW but healer dps rotations are in a much better state than in FFXIV in addition to healing being generally more intense and requiring decision making over planning. There is a reason for the many healer threads with some of them reaching 100+ pages. It IS an issue and it is something that WoW still does better. From leveling dungeons to endgame raids.

My point isn’t that ffxiv is better than WoWs. It’s that the rotations aren’t any better or more engaging. It doesn’t matter if WoWs holy priest has a swp, smite, w/e if you are still spamming flash heal the whole time. It’s a problem with mmo healers in general. The difference in WoW is dps can’t screw up like dps can in this game and still survive. The WoW healing kits can only do so much. Ffxiv doesn’t have as big of an issue with this. Doom mechanics in this game didn’t even matter because you can just Rez people over and over. In WoW you get one battle Rez.

[IDontPetLalas]

My point isn’t that ffxiv is better than WoWs. It’s that the rotations aren’t any better or more engaging. It doesn’t matter if WoWs holy priest has a swp, smite, w/e if you are still spamming flash heal the whole time. It’s a problem with mmo healers in general. The difference in WoW is dps can’t screw up like dps can in this game and still survive. The WoW healing kits can only do so much. Ffxiv doesn’t have as big of an issue with this. Doom mechanics in this game didn’t even matter because you can just Rez people over and over. In WoW you get one battle Rez.

WOW isn't the only other game around. There are other MMOs in which healers have DPS and healing trees, and when healing in dungeons healers have the ability to self rez (typically on a timer), and rez other players over and over as you say as a healer. In at least one game, i had the ability to spec as pure heal, DPS or a hybrid spec healer - the best choice of spec was usually determined by the difficulty of the content and the number of healers.

The point is however that choice of skills lead to more engagement for healers in more than one game.

[Moonsprite]

WOW isn't the only other game around. There are other MMOs in which healers have DPS and healing trees, and when healing in dungeons healers have the ability to self rez (typically on a timer), and rez other players over and over as you say as a healer. In at least one game, i had the ability to spec as pure heal, DPS or a hybrid spec healer - the best choice of spec was usually determined by the difficulty of the content and the number of healers.

The point is however that choice of skills lead to more engagement for healers in more than one game.

Choice of skills/abilities matter if you get to actually use them in your rotation. I happened to like the aero 3 dot aoe that was removed. I didn’t care about the aqua knock back spell because I didn’t use it.

The type of healer you are talking about reminds me of ESO. In ESO you can pick and choose your skills, but mostly there is a meta spec for grouping and it’s mostly boosting resources and spot healing too. The only games I can compare are ESO, FFXIV, and WoW right now. These are my experiences in those games.

The beginning of the thread specifically targets WoW so that’s why I used it as a comparison, but I would definitely be interested in knowing what other MMOs have different healing dynamics. No sarcasm, I’m being genuine with that. I’ve been bored lately with healing in general.

[Acece]

My point isn’t that ffxiv is better than WoWs. It’s that the rotations aren’t any better or more engaging. It doesn’t matter if WoWs holy priest has a swp, smite, w/e if you are still spamming flash heal the whole time. It’s a problem with mmo healers in general. The difference in WoW is dps can’t screw up like dps can in this game and still survive. The WoW healing kits can only do so much. Ffxiv doesn’t have as big of an issue with this. Doom mechanics in this game didn’t even matter because you can just Rez people over and over. In WoW you get one battle Rez.

If we compare healing kits, WoW kits are better in almost every single way lol. Not only do they have diverse types of healers with hots, tank healers, melee healers, and healers that heal through damage but they also have more fun heals that are unique or interact with its kit. like prayer of mending, flash concentration, holy word cd reduction, divine start positioning, and impactful cd's like holy word: salvation. Meanwhile whm has free cure (lol), a refund of a cure 2 and medica 1 on a 20 cd, plen indulgence, and benediction I guess.

Bottom line is ffxiv healing kits are boring with some fun heals like exog, recitation, kerkole/sacred soil, essential dignity, and star. most of the heals are just copy pasted hots or pure heals on a cd.