Doesnt feel like the WoW migration improved the community.

[Ralphe2449]

Because my initial reaction is definitely not which isnt surprising considering the type of people wow players are.

I first played FF14 during Shadowbringers before the big WoW migration wave from the disaster that was shadowlands and later on the lawsuits.

I quite enjoyed the game though the lack of dps utility kinda made dungeons boring dps spam but that was just a personal preference, nothing game breaking to start doomsaying.

The sentiment about the game and the forums were very positive at the time, people were friendly and happy and discussed their class issues in a less negative way with the exception of 1-2 tryhards complaining about a casual not doing well in DF as if it matters for that content.

Now I come back after a while and the community looks worse, forums have a lot more complaints, the amount of tryhards complaining about the game being casual friendly has vastly increased and the same people are now screaming doom because Yoshida dares not to treat raiders and high end content as special like WoW does and instead tries to be accessible. And in general there's a lot more negativity coming from the typical tryhard crowd which was very common in the wow playerbase.

You now even see the typical wow streamer youtube complaining that the game isnt hard enough because of course they only care about inflating their ego by *checks notes* "beating a video game that is literally designed to be beaten" and not the MAJORITY OF THE PLAYERBASE aka casuals who pay the bills.

Which seems weird cuz honestly, if you want to be treated as special for doing high end content you should be going back to WoW that will forever treat non raiders and casual players as 4th class citizens, FF14 is thankfully not following WoW's example.

[YukiB]

People aren't complaining more because they came from WoW.

People are complaining more because they don't like things about the game.

[IkaraGreydancer]

People aren't complaining more because they came from WoW.

People are complaining more because they don't like things about the game.

Problem is to many are claiming objective fact when most of it is really just subjective opinion

[IdowhatIwant]

Problem is to many are claiming objective fact when most of it is really just subjective opinion

Not to sure about that, it is an objective fact that classes are being simplified. It is an objective fact that classes are losing identity. The subjective part is your opinion on those changes.

[Zaniel]

Not to sure about that, it is an objective fact that classes are being simplified. It is an objective fact that classes are losing identity. The subjective part is your opinion on those changes.

Even if something gets simplified it's still a subjective opinion as to whether a change is good or bad. Take Warrior Overpower for example, clearly a sideways move or simplification and obviously a homogenisation of tank AE. However, just take a look at the forums and social media, I'd say a good 75% of people prefer the change. YOU may not and that's fine but both the 75% and the 25% are subjective. People on the 25% negative side can't accept that though and insist on an argument of "objectively bad" to justify their subjectively feeling bad. Whereas if they just said "subjectively my opinion is this feels worse to ME" then most people would accept that and acknowledge their dislike.

(EDIT: I am aware we aren't really disagreeing)

In regards to the WoW thing, meh, I have seen a few people who want FF14 to become like their old WoW home but that's a tiny minority of people. I personally came here after giving up on WoW during Shadowlands and I could not be happier. FF14's design choices are globally far superior to almost every aspect of WoW (with a few tiny exceptions like the glamour dresser system). I play FF14 BECAUSE it is not WoW, I left because of all those old bad decisions. Is FF14 a completely perfect game in all regards? Hell no, there is no perfect game but I have an adult brain and can accept that 80-90% of the game is fantastic and there is no point having a hissy fit flailing around in my own juices over the 20% I would do differently, especially seeing as I accept that from that 20%, 15% are simply design decisions I do not prefer and only 5% are actually issues. Better than WoW where the ratio is 40% good, 60% bad and 55% of that 60% is the devs being deliberate bastards.

[Ralphe2449]

Problem is to many are claiming objective fact when most of it is really just subjective opinion

And the fact that they are literally saying "if you dont pander to me, the game will die" which often comes from the more "tryhard" groups.

Like i said, I do dislike the fact that dps have barely any utility and dungeons just end up being "press dps buttons" so you dont rly have much control on how to approach an encounter, but I am not going in the forums screaming "IF THIS ISNT CHANGED, THE GAME WILL DIE AND EVERYONE WILL LEAVE!!!"

I liked ff14 climate before where the typical tryhard wow youtube streamers didnt exist or make videos complaining how the FF14 devs dont do what they want and the game will suffer because of it.
If they want a game that treats high end content and raiders as special, WoW is there, check how well it is doing now that even with all the changes nothing benefits casuals/solo players since they are always given scraps exactly because the devs share the mentality of "we cant give good things to non high end content players else our raiders will complain"

WoW has ended up in this state exactly because the devs cared a lot about high end content and the complaints of raiders.

[IdowhatIwant]

That first point is moot tbh. Nobody is talking about those aspects as they are themselves. It's the later part that's the issue I'm referring to. Opinions on changes are being claimed as factual n objective

If you view an opinion as an objective fact, than that is on your misinterpretation of it.

And the fact that they are literally saying "if you dont pander to me, the game will die" which often comes from the more "tryhard" groups.

Like i said, I do dislike the fact that dps have barely any utility and dungeons just end up being "press dps buttons" so you dont rly have much control on how to approach an encounter, but I am not going in the forums screaming "IF THIS ISNT CHANGED, THE GAME WILL DIE AND EVERYONE WILL LEAVE!!!"

I liked ff14 climate before where the typical tryhard wow youtube streamers didnt exist or make videos complaining how the FF14 devs dont do what they want and the game will suffer because of it.
If they want a game that treats high end content and raiders as special, WoW is there, check how well it is doing now that even with all the changes nothing benefits casuals/solo players since they are always given scraps exactly because the devs share the mentality of "we cant give good things to non high end content players else our raiders will complain"

WoW has ended up in this state exactly because the devs cared a lot about high end content and the complaints of raiders.

You joined this game in the previous expansion, and just came back from a break. And based on your character you did not play it much so I don't think you know what try hard groups are in this game, or really much about the player base in general. Taking your opinion seriously is very hard, basically nothing more than a troll thread made by a troll account. Since you paid $15 to post I will bite.

I don't see much where people say, if you do not add another ultimate fight now, I will quit. There are a lot of angry samurais right now saying if you don't add kaiten back now I will quit, but that has little to do with try hards and more to do with people being upset that there favorite job was changed. It happens with many job changes, it will happened again with other job changes, I expect to hear angry dragoons next patch.

I do not know where these typical try hard wow youtube streamers are for FFXIV with the exception of xenos, who has been around since ARR. Which Xenos actually supports a lot of the casual content in this game. People don't want the game to have some sort special treatment to high end content raiders, I think most players want the skill ceiling to stop being lowered, and combat content to be a little more diverse. There is a whole midcore level difficulty that is missing in this game to help players fill in the gap between the casual content and the high end content. This game has typically designed most content with the intent of being casual friendly since SB. So I don't know what much more to tell ya bud, maybe stop reading the forums and go play the game and figure out some gripes or praises yourself.

[Ralphe2449]

I do not know where these typical try hard wow youtube streamers are for FFXIV with the exception of xenos

Yeah that is why one of the first videos I see today on the timeline are "Despi Reacts to "FFXIV is Hurting Its Veteran Players" By Misshapen Chair" which is mostly the typical moaning of "omg the game isnt hard enough, the game will die if it doesnt pander to us high end players and high skill content"
And usually react videos mean it aint just some rando that is irrelevant in the FF14 community, this mentality is spreading and it isnt healthy or good for the community.

But feel free to assume i am just some troll account because my character is low level, must have spend hours just watching the story i guess to know everything cuz there's no other explanation xd

[IdowhatIwant]

Yeah that is why one of the first videos I see today on the timeline are "Despi Reacts to "FFXIV is Hurting Its Veteran Players" By Misshapen Chair" which is mostly the typical moaning of "omg the game isnt hard enough, the game will die if it doesnt pander to us high end players and high skill content"
And usually react videos mean it aint just some rando that is irrelevant in the FF14 community, this mentality is spreading and it isnt healthy or good for the community.

But feel free to assume i am just some troll account because my character is low level, must have spend hours just watching the story i guess to know everything cuz there's no other explanation xd

Did you watch the actual video or any other content by misshapen chair? It is actually really good.

What Misshapen chair is talking about is how FFXIV is lowering the skill ceiling of the jobs, and causing many of the jobs to lose identity, things that many players used to select a job in the first place. So for example, how would you feel if you played summoner from 2.0 playing as a dot mage, with a little big of pet management to purchase a new expansion for your class, to be completely recreated into a mobile caster that uses about two or three buttons. So now this class that you selected, as it played as a dot mage, is now something completely different. Wouldn't feel very good would it? These are the sort of things that hurt the veteran player base.

One of the things that I really enjoyed about this game when I first started playing was this variance in skill floor and skill ceiling with the classes. With HW this got even more interesting IMO but man were there some balance problems. SB began fixing some of these problems, but took some steps on lowering this skill ceiling. ShB made drastic changes and completely lowered this skill ceiling with a large number of changes, and EW has continued down this path. I mean ShB remove agro management from the game... that is a very drastic change for people that have played this game in 2.0. So absolutely many veteran players are being hurt by these changes, but there are many that do not care either.

The video has very little to do with we need more hard content, and more to do with the idea that the class design is suffering due to a skill ceiling that is being lowered, but the only players that care about this skill ceiling are the ones that participate in the harder content. If you are a casual player running a dungeon, first of all you don't have to many opportunities to even push the skill ceiling, second you likely do not care and third it's not necessary. I usually try to hit my skill ceiling in dungeons, but I just enjoy playing the game well and take any opportunity to improve whether it be a dungeon boss, or a savage boss, but you do not have to play the game like me. He wraps it up with essentially being confused as to who these changes are pandering to, as players that do harder content want a skill ceiling, players that don't do savage don't care and wont try to reach a skill ceiling. And I think that is where a lot of players are right now is confused and concerned about why these things are happening and where the game is going exactly.

[RobynDaBank]

Yeah that is why one of the first videos I see today on the timeline are "Despi Reacts to "FFXIV is Hurting Its Veteran Players" By Misshapen Chair" which is mostly the typical moaning of "omg the game isnt hard enough, the game will die if it doesnt pander to us high end players and high skill content"
And usually react videos mean it aint just some rando that is irrelevant in the FF14 community, this mentality is spreading and it isnt healthy or good for the community.

But feel free to assume i am just some troll account because my character is low level, must have spend hours just watching the story i guess to know everything cuz there's no other explanation xd

Ya know, when I see a video presenting an opinion I don't agree with, I see the first five minutes and move on. I don't bemoan that the community as a whole is a disease-filled pile of garbage that a certain group of players are adding on to. Complaining that the community sucks because two people said the game has things they don't like is doing the same thing the two people did - blowing stuff out of proportion.

I kinda agree with your takes but being antagonistic towards others won't get those same people on board with you.