Keep our skills when Level syncing in dungeons

[ASkellington]

Theres no reason that FFXIV cant do something what other MMOs allready did years ago. Everyone hear talks like this is something super difficult when in reality you only need to scale the %numbers for dmg calculation and gear level. Just for example if a tank can already successful use an aoe with lvl 10 or 15 in dungeons with a potency off 100 or 110 there is absolutly no reasy why that shouldnt work for other classes as well and no he dosnt one shoot npcs with his aoe at this lvl.

This doesn't work for the healing role completely and fully highlights how bad the kit is.

OVER HALF OF OUR KIT IS HEALING.

There is going to be nothing fun about placing Exaltation and two Celestial Intersections on my tank in Satasha spamming Gravity 2 (or 1) from start to finish. I ALREADY barely hit Essential Diginity in most pulls.

The ONLY fun part about this would be that the tank and I can give the finger to the entire first room of Aurum Vale and the boss at once.

And that's ignoring how stupid Divination would be.

[Missbone]

This doesn't work for the healing role completely and fully highlights how bad the kit is.

OVER HALF OF OUR KIT IS HEALING.

There is going to be nothing fun about placing Exaltation and two Celestial Intersections on my tank in Satasha spamming Gravity 2 (or 1) from start to finish. I ALREADY barely hit Essential Diginity in most pulls.

The ONLY fun part about this would be that the tank and I can give the finger to the entire first room of Aurum Vale and the boss at once.

And that's ignoring how stupid Divination would be.

i think you extragate here a bit, other heal skills work at low lvl to so why shouldnt your work aswell. If a healskill has usualy a potency of lets say 300 than lower it to 200 or 150 in low level content. It should be possible to input some kind of checks into the game code, like is the dungeon above 50? change nothing is it below use value xxx. All you have to do is just adjust the numbers and dungeon still stay the same like they are now, except that you can use all your skills.

[ASkellington]

i think you extragate here a bit, other heal skills work at low lvl to so why shouldnt your work aswell. If a healskill has usualy a potency of lets say 300 than lower it to 200 or 150 in low level content. It should be possible to input some kind of checks into the game code, like is the dungeon above 50? change nothing is it below use value xxx. All you have to do is just adjust the numbers and dungeon still stay the same like they are now, except that you can use all your skills.

The point is HOW MANY TOOLS I HAVE and not their potency. You can reduce the potency of my heals all you want. I'm still not going to USE THEM ALL.

[Mikey_R]

i think you extragate here a bit, other heal skills work at low lvl to so why shouldnt your work aswell. If a healskill has usualy a potency of lets say 300 than lower it to 200 or 150 in low level content. It should be possible to input some kind of checks into the game code, like is the dungeon above 50? change nothing is it below use value xxx. All you have to do is just adjust the numbers and dungeon still stay the same like they are now, except that you can use all your skills.

Healing potency doesn't scale well when you consider how much it heals for. In Sastasha, my 450 cure heals for about 220 HP of my 404 HP, that is more than half, yet, at i571, it heals for about 9000 HP at 500 potency, but what is my HP? 43390, so I'm healing about 20% of my max HP.

So, you have 2 choices, keep everything the same healing potency and do massive overhealing, or, massively reduce your healing capabilities when you sync down, that 50% heal from cure? Closer to 20% now, effectively making your basic cure spell weaker than a sprout, is that fair? Sure, you have all the tools, but you have to work so much harder.

All this and we still haven't taken the tank into account. If you have a synced tank, you should be fine, you both have kits scaled for the dungeon, so all is good, but what if your tank is new? They aren't going to have all the tools that you are used to, Holy Sheltron? Nope, haven't even got Sheltron yet, Requiescat healing? nope, Bloodwhetting? Nope. etc. The life of the healer is going to be much harder just because you happened to have a new tank. Make it bad enough and the tank could be kicked or you might think, i can't be bothered with this and leave, you help noone.

As for tanks, max level tanks are absolute beasts when compared to their low level. Massive amounts of mitigation, massive amounts of healing, and AoE damage potential that just gets better as you level. I have already shown how PLD's potency per GCD increases by about 3-4x during the levelling process. Make tanks too strong and suddenly, you will not need a healer, make them too weak and suddenly the new healer struggles as they do not have the kit a max level healer has.

Despite what most think, there is way too much to think about and balance, it is not just 'adjust potencies here and there or change damage by X%' it is also about the tools jobs get at higher levels. It is not feasible to balance it all, especially if you want to keep regular updates to the game.

[ASkellington]

snip

To add on to this to my my above post more clear, you can make my heals the equivilent of Benefic 1 and Helios in Satasha. Benefic 1 heals Satasha by itself and doesn't get outclassed until Brayflox and I get Benefic 2. You can raise all my heals to Benefic 2's spot as well because it too can be used solely to heal most content. That means I have about 4 AOE healing abilities and 4 single target abilities on the oGCD that I only need to press ONCE and be fine in most content. And BORED in most content.

My problem is either the healing would be overtuned and I'd be even more bored in lower content than I am now or it would be undertuned just enough so that 2 abilities would need to heal for the potency of 1 in its current state and make healing a chore for a whole different reason.

If you want to equalize the leveling abilities so it feels like we have less gaps in skills between 1-50 fine. But NO. I do NOT want my healing kit at 90 in sub 80 content.

[Gullis]

Healing potency doesn't scale well when you consider how much it heals for. In Sastasha, my 450 cure heals for about 220 HP of my 404 HP, that is more than half, yet, at i571, it heals for about 9000 HP at 500 potency, but what is my HP? 43390, so I'm healing about 20% of my max HP.

So, you have 2 choices, keep everything the same healing potency and do massive overhealing, or, massively reduce your healing capabilities when you sync down, that 50% heal from cure? Closer to 20% now, effectively making your basic cure spell weaker than a sprout, is that fair? Sure, you have all the tools, but you have to work so much harder.

All this and we still haven't taken the tank into account. If you have a synced tank, you should be fine, you both have kits scaled for the dungeon, so all is good, but what if your tank is new? They aren't going to have all the tools that you are used to, Holy Sheltron? Nope, haven't even got Sheltron yet, Requiescat healing? nope, Bloodwhetting? Nope. etc. The life of the healer is going to be much harder just because you happened to have a new tank. Make it bad enough and the tank could be kicked or you might think, i can't be bothered with this and leave, you help noone.

As for tanks, max level tanks are absolute beasts when compared to their low level. Massive amounts of mitigation, massive amounts of healing, and AoE damage potential that just gets better as you level. I have already shown how PLD's potency per GCD increases by about 3-4x during the levelling process. Make tanks too strong and suddenly, you will not need a healer, make them too weak and suddenly the new healer struggles as they do not have the kit a max level healer has.

Despite what most think, there is way too much to think about and balance, it is not just 'adjust potencies here and there or change damage by X%' it is also about the tools jobs get at higher levels. It is not feasible to balance it all, especially if you want to keep regular updates to the game.

Agreed. people tend to just think damage abilities and ignore everything else

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

i think you extragate here a bit, other heal skills work at low lvl to so why shouldnt your work aswell. If a healskill has usualy a potency of lets say 300 than lower it to 200 or 150 in low level content. It should be possible to input some kind of checks into the game code, like is the dungeon above 50? change nothing is it below use value xxx. All you have to do is just adjust the numbers and dungeon still stay the same like they are now, except that you can use all your skills.

Humor me. How do you think you can keep a lv15 CNJ's output who only has Cure I and Medica in their arsenal balanced to a lv90 WHM who has their full kits? Do you force all heals into 450p heals? Hate to break your bubble, it's not that simple.

We have healing abilities that are not bound to GCD. Suppose that everything are reduced to 450 cure potency which is the base Cure I's potency, a synced lv90 WHM will still massively heal way more a lv15 CNJ. Any GCD Heal + Tetra + Benison in a single GCD all equals to a whooping 1350p GCD, which is accounts more than a tank's full health at lv15. This is a feat that a lv15 CNJ cannot achieve. You know where is this going to lead next: sprout CNJs will get kicked in favor for synced healers in order to perform wall pulls reliably (it's not that wall pulls in those low dungeons are impossible anyway nowadays... but that's beside the point). So now what are we going to do? Nerf everything to certain percentage so that no matter what the synced healer do, they cannot pump out more than 450p per GCD? Not so fast, my friend. Mikey_R explained & hit the nail of the head for this predicament, including the tank's side of balancing difficulties.

What I think some of us do agree in this thread though, yes, lv sync does makes some of our jobs' gameplay felt incomplete and it can feel suck to play. The most glaring ones are the nonexistent of some jobs' AoE buttons until second half of ARR's level progression (looking at you DRG) and the lack of anything to do. One of the few ideas that other forum dweller had mentioned before could probably be implemented. Such as specifically giving WHM the low lv version of Assize, Temperance, Benison, and Aquaveil that could encourage learning healers to weave abilities while giving them something to do. Basic AoE rotation too for all jobs perhaps, like Deceptus mentioned.

Full lv90 toolkits though? Sorry, it just won't happen without breaking something and creating more problems.