Healers need an overhaul

[Silverbane]

No, i disagree.

Well, you're not disagreeing with me. I'm not the one calling SGE a "gimped damage dealer." SGE is SGE, and I like it "regardless of how people categorize the class." Oh, and you may have also missed the words "seems more like" in my post, so read it again.

Btw. AST is a better "pure healer" then WHM.

Could be, but I haven't played AST since before Shadowbringers, and I have played WHM recently, so that was my point of reference.

[HyoMinPark]

Well, you're not disagreeing with me. I'm not the one calling SGE a "gimped damage dealer." SGE is SGE, and I like it "regardless of how people categorize the class." Oh, and you may have also missed the words "seems more like" in my post, so read it again.

ALL healers are gimped damage dealers. This is not exclusive to SGE. That you fail to realize how all four do far more damage dealing than they do healing shows a lack of understanding of how healers function and play in this game. In all content. The damage-to-healing ratio skew is not exclusive to Savage/Ultimate. That it’s so low in those pieces of content speaks volumes to how much you are doing in anything below it. Considering healers are barely needed for things like dungeons and Extremes, that should tell you all you need to know.

Could be, but I haven't played AST since before Shadowbringers, and I have played WHM recently, so that was my point of reference.

For reference, WHM is the healer that tends to do the least amount of healing compared to its direct counterpart, AST. With SCH/SGE, it also prefers not to heal—surprisingly, SGE does more of the overall healing compared to a WHM despite being advertised as the “DPS healer”. Keep in mind that this doesn’t mean that any decent SGE is still casting Dosis III 80% or more of the time.

All four healers play like DPS, but do significantly less damage than a DPS job, and have a far less interesting “rotation”. The latter is what healers are now advocating to change, since we won’t get the increased healing output that we spent the last couple years asking for.

Sigh. Is it just me, or does anyone else think this last statement is inappropriate and makes Banriikku look bad?

I’m afraid that it is just you.

Honestly, that's a problem for you, fine, acknowledged, but it isn't for me.
As long as I'm having fun playing the game, it doesn't matter that I can DPS a bit along with healing and shielding.
I find it way more fun than the tanking, ranged DPS, and melee DPS I've done.

You aren’t reading what Rolder50 said: they said that there is hardly any content that requires a healer to use their full healing kit. Things like Lilybell, Seraph, Macrocosmos, and Pneuma are overkill more often than not in content. That in an of itself is one of the problems with healers: the developer give us all these shiny new healing tools, but they don’t give us content to make use of them. Or, the content they do give, is basically just for the 1% (Ultimate).

No one here is saying that they don’t like DPSing as a healer. They’re complaining that that is ALL healer seem to do anymore. The majority of the time, that is what we are doing. And our DPS “rotation” is boring. So we want it to change.

[Silverbane]

That you fail to realize how all four do far more damage dealing than they do healing shows a lack of understanding of how healers function and play in this game.

It's not that I don't understand.
It's that I don't care that the way they function isn't the way you think they should.

I have a friend who parses (don't we all ) and I enjoy out-DPSing the DPSs on a big trash pull. Perhaps you think that's inappropriate for a healer, but as I said, I run a Sage, not a "healer." And even the Endwalker trailer emphasizes a Sage doing DPS over heals.

FFXIV offers four classes they label as "HEALERS" and apparently none of them fit your definition of that label. But me, I judge them on what they are, not on the labels people hang on them. Same as I do with people, BTW.

You wanna relabel Sage as a support class instead of a healer? Fine, as long as I still get fast queue pops.

[Nethereal]

It's not that I don't understand.
It's that I don't care that the way they function isn't the way you think they should.

I have a friend who parses (don't we all ) and I enjoy out-DPSing the DPSs on a big trash pull. Perhaps you think that's inappropriate for a healer, but as I said, I run a Sage, not a "healer." And even the Endwalker trailer emphasizes a Sage doing DPS over heals.

FFXIV offers four classes they label as "HEALERS" and apparently none of them fit your definition of that label. But me, I judge them on what they are, not on the labels people hang on them. Same as I do with people, BTW.

You wanna relabel Sage as a support class instead of a healer? Fine, as long as I still get fast queue pops.

You don't understand.

They don't think it's inappropriate, you think that because you're not comprehending what you're reading.

All 4 healers spend 80% of their time dealing damage with a variation of 3 buttons sometimes 4 for Aoe. 20% of that time is spent healing, maybe 1% of that time is spent GCD healing.

Considering you "judge them on what they are" you should consider these classes to be support dps right? Since you spend more time dealing damage, than healing.

[Silverbane]

Considering you "judge them on what they are" you should consider these classes to be support dps right? Since you spend more time dealing damage, than healing.

I'm fine with any label you want to hang on them, as long as I still get fast duty roulette pops.
But I think I'm repeating myself.

[HyoMinPark]

It's not that I don't understand.
It's that I don't care that the way they function isn't the way you think they should.

So you think that healers should have a boring rotation that they spam 80 to 90% of the time, and barely heal? Because that’s how they function. It isn’t just me who thinks that the way healers play and the way they function leave much to be desired.

I have a friend who parses (don't we all ) and I enjoy out-DPSing the DPSs on a big trash pull. Perhaps you think that's inappropriate for a healer, but as I said, I run a Sage, not a "healer." And even the Endwalker trailer emphasizes a Sage doing DPS over heals.

Again, you act as if I have a problem with healers DPSing or healers doing decent personal damage. That is not the issue I have, and if you believe otherwise, there’s a site you can look me up on to see just how much time I spend dealing damage as a healer. Or you could read what I’m writing instead of knee-jerk responding with bad arguments and statements that complete miss my points.

The issues I have are two-fold: healers do very little healing, to the point that their healing kit is overkill in most content; only the hardest pieces of content actually call for the full use of it, and that is a problem. And secondly, healers, for all the time they spend casting damage abilities, have a boring-as-sin rotation that needs to be adjusted. It isn’t that hard to have a 1-2-3 combo on healers, or multiple DoTs, or more damage oGCDs. You could give each of the four something different and they would feel infinitely better than they do now.

WHM? Why not give them a 1-2-3 and work Misery into a finisher for it?

SCH? How about giving them their DoTs back that they lost?

SGE? Why not expand on their instant-casts and oGCDs? Find a way to allow more Addersting generation and create a combo or a finisher from using Addersting.

AST is actually the only one where the simple 1 DoT, 1 nuke works due to their card mini-game. But why not give them a second DoT, or an instant-cast GCD for movement since Lightspeed tends to be locked to burst windows for multiple card usages? Maybe bring back Stella?

The healers not pressing their damage buttons will continue to ignore any additional ones, so why punish those who want more buttons because some don’t want to press them? There isn’t a legitimate excuse behind the boring DPS “rotation” we have. Giving us a few extra buttons to press would not suddenly make healers have “Savage-level” gameplay or be any more difficult to play. And since they primarily heal with oGCDs when healing is needed (except WHM), then there is no worry about interrupting the combo or breaking it.

With all due respect, I don’t think you have any idea what I think is appropriate for healers and what isn’t. You can strawman arguments as much as you like; but that won’t help your case here.

FFXIV offers four classes they label as "HEALERS" and apparently none of them fit your definition of that label. But me, I judge them on what they are, not on the labels people hang on them. Same as I do with people, BTW.

I mean we certainly don’t do much healing. We are more or less “support” or “budget DPS” or “gimped damage dealers”. Might as well call us what we are.

[Nethereal]

Well, you're not disagreeing with me. I'm not the one calling SGE a "gimped damage dealer." SGE is SGE, and I like it "regardless of how people categorize the class." Oh, and you may have also missed the words "seems more like" in my post, so read it again.

To reiterate what I said before: I enjoy running a Sage, regardless of how people categorize the class.
And I enjoy it more than I did WHM, which seems more like the "pure healer" you want to play.

Could be, but I haven't played AST since before Shadowbringers, and I have played WHM recently, so that was my point of reference.

I think you need to "read it again" and properly educate yourself so you can at least hold a conversation about class balance in a vacuum.

Honestly, that's a problem for you, fine, acknowledged, but it isn't for me.
As long as I'm having fun playing the game, it doesn't matter that I can DPS a bit along with healing and shielding.
I find it way more fun than the tanking, ranged DPS, and melee DPS I've done.

Why am I not surprised another "It doesn't affect me so I don't care but I'm still going to get in the way of any possible change while remaining ignorant of the actual issue so I can use my guise of ignorance as a defense in my bad faith tactics."

[Banriikku]

Well, you're not disagreeing with me. I'm not the one calling SGE a "gimped damage dealer." SGE is SGE, and I like it "regardless of how people categorize the class." Oh, and you may have also missed the words "seems more like" in my post, so read it again.


Could be, but I haven't played AST since before Shadowbringers, and I have played WHM recently, so that was my point of reference.


Sigh. Is it just me, or does anyone else think this last statement is inappropriate and makes Banriikku look bad?

You are claiming some bold statements but dont want to explain ? And when pointed out you start with personal attacks. Sorry but thats how you come across.
SE decided on how we can play the healers and SE can and should change it in my opinion to a DPS rotation or BUff/Debuff mechanic. At the moment all healers play the same.