Healers need an overhaul

[Silverbane]

That you fail to realize how all four do far more damage dealing than they do healing shows a lack of understanding of how healers function and play in this game.

It's not that I don't understand.
It's that I don't care that the way they function isn't the way you think they should.

I have a friend who parses (don't we all ) and I enjoy out-DPSing the DPSs on a big trash pull. Perhaps you think that's inappropriate for a healer, but as I said, I run a Sage, not a "healer." And even the Endwalker trailer emphasizes a Sage doing DPS over heals.

FFXIV offers four classes they label as "HEALERS" and apparently none of them fit your definition of that label. But me, I judge them on what they are, not on the labels people hang on them. Same as I do with people, BTW.

You wanna relabel Sage as a support class instead of a healer? Fine, as long as I still get fast queue pops.

[Nethereal]

It's not that I don't understand.
It's that I don't care that the way they function isn't the way you think they should.

I have a friend who parses (don't we all ) and I enjoy out-DPSing the DPSs on a big trash pull. Perhaps you think that's inappropriate for a healer, but as I said, I run a Sage, not a "healer." And even the Endwalker trailer emphasizes a Sage doing DPS over heals.

FFXIV offers four classes they label as "HEALERS" and apparently none of them fit your definition of that label. But me, I judge them on what they are, not on the labels people hang on them. Same as I do with people, BTW.

You wanna relabel Sage as a support class instead of a healer? Fine, as long as I still get fast queue pops.

You don't understand.

They don't think it's inappropriate, you think that because you're not comprehending what you're reading.

All 4 healers spend 80% of their time dealing damage with a variation of 3 buttons sometimes 4 for Aoe. 20% of that time is spent healing, maybe 1% of that time is spent GCD healing.

Considering you "judge them on what they are" you should consider these classes to be support dps right? Since you spend more time dealing damage, than healing.

[Silverbane]

You people keep attacking me as ignorant just because I don't care about things you care about. Tsk tsk. Bad logic and bad manners.

At the end of the day, though, nothing you can say will stop me from enjoying playing Sage (and other classes too) as it is right now. And nothing you can say can stop me from saying that.

I don't think SE cares that I don't run in a static or do Ultimates: I still pay as much or more per month as the people who do.
If SE delayed new content a month or two to implement the changes you want, who knows, people like me might leave.
And I think people like me are far more numerous than the people who protest that SE healers aren't the healers they ought to be.

Perhaps that's why so many of you seem so intent to drive me off this thread.
Perhaps you want SE to only hear your voice, and mistake it for a majority view.
I mean, that's the whole point of "cancel culture," isn't it?

Time will tell whether SE listens. And we'll all do what we do in response.
But please, don't threaten to "move to Canada" unless you really will.

[Silverbane]

Considering you "judge them on what they are" you should consider these classes to be support dps right? Since you spend more time dealing damage, than healing.

I'm fine with any label you want to hang on them, as long as I still get fast duty roulette pops.
But I think I'm repeating myself.

[ty_taurus]

You people keep attacking me as ignorant just because I don't care about things you care about. Tsk tsk. Bad logic and bad manners.

At the end of the day, though, nothing you can say will stop me from enjoying playing Sage (and other classes too) as it is right now. And nothing you can say can stop me from saying that.

I don't think SE cares that I don't run in a static or do Ultimates: I still pay as much or more per month as the people who do.
If SE delayed new content a month or two to implement the changes you want, who knows, people like me might leave.
And I think people like me are far more numerous than the people who protest that SE healers aren't the healers they ought to be.

Perhaps that's why so many of you seem so intent to drive me off this thread.
Perhaps you want SE to only hear your voice, and mistake it for a majority view.
I mean, that's the whole point of "cancel culture," isn't it?

Time will tell whether SE listens. And we'll all do what we do in response.
But please, don't threaten to "move to Canada" unless you really will.

I'm still just trying to wrap my head around how this whole rabbit hole came about.

You basically said, "I enjoy Sage right now, though I'm not a hardcore healer and I can't really speak about the issue at hand."

Someone responds with, "That's great, and it's fine that you enjoy it. It's just a shame that there are others who would use that as a weapon against the people unhappy with healing."

And then you rebuttled with "HoW DarE YoU pErsOnAlLY atTaCk mE! AlL oF yOU PeOplE CanT AcCept ThAt I LiKe sAge!"

[Banriikku]

You people keep attacking me as ignorant just because I don't care about things you care about. Tsk tsk. Bad logic and bad manners.

At the end of the day, though, nothing you can say will stop me from enjoying playing Sage (and other classes too) as it is right now. And nothing you can say can stop me from saying that.

I don't think SE cares that I don't run in a static or do Ultimates: I still pay as much or more per month as the people who do.
If SE delayed new content a month or two to implement the changes you want, who knows, people like me might leave.
And I think people like me are far more numerous than the people who protest that SE healers aren't the healers they ought to be.

Perhaps that's why so many of you seem so intent to drive me off this thread.
Perhaps you want SE to only hear your voice, and mistake it for a majority view.
I mean, that's the whole point of "cancel culture," isn't it?

Time will tell whether SE listens. And we'll all do what we do in response.
But please, don't threaten to "move to Canada" unless you really will.

Sorry but WHAT? I fail to understand what you are writing. I know english is not my first language but i thought i have some basic understanding and still i fail to understand what you mean.
You jump from one point to another without context or meaning and then you start gaslighting, then you make statement for others, try to twist sentences and words to make people look bad
and last but not least you even end your "text" with "i do not care, i have fun" to invalidate the whole discussion.

I dont know but "Are you ok ?"

Also a very big point regarding this discussion as a whole - critique on something dont invalidates your fun with it or takes something away from you. on the contrary it can even enhance your expierence.

[Rilifane]

You people keep attacking me as ignorant just because I don't care about things you care about. Tsk tsk. Bad logic and bad manners.

At the end of the day, though, nothing you can say will stop me from enjoying playing Sage (and other classes too) as it is right now. And nothing you can say can stop me from saying that.

I don't think SE cares that I don't run in a static or do Ultimates: I still pay as much or more per month as the people who do.
If SE delayed new content a month or two to implement the changes you want, who knows, people like me might leave.
And I think people like me are far more numerous than the people who protest that SE healers aren't the healers they ought to be.

Perhaps that's why so many of you seem so intent to drive me off this thread.
Perhaps you want SE to only hear your voice, and mistake it for a majority view.
I mean, that's the whole point of "cancel culture," isn't it?

Time will tell whether SE listens. And we'll all do what we do in response.
But please, don't threaten to "move to Canada" unless you really will.

Oh, please.
Don't play the victim just because you failed to read and understand what people wrote.

Deliberately interpretating something wrong and jumping at the chance to use it against someone and then pretending to be the "enlightened one that doesn't label things (and PEOPLE!) that instead simply sees and accepts them for what they are" like you had one hell of a "HA! Gotcha!" moment when you didn't was entirely on you.
Failing to see that Sage has the exact same 1 dot/ 1 nuke rotation as every other healer and presses those buttons as many times as any other healer but then claiming that Sage is "the dps healer" when it's not and has been proven not to be over and over just because Yoshi said so or because of a trailer (which are known to be about as accurate for actual gameplay as the average horoscope in a TV guide) was also on you.

You simply didn't do your research and don't know the facts and now you're playing the victim and accusing peple of attacking you or wanting to drive you off because you can't deal with getting proven wrong.
What was that about "not a good look"?

[Nethereal]

You people keep attacking me as ignorant just because I don't care about things you care about. Tsk tsk. Bad logic and bad manners.

You don't need to care about something to be informed about it. You're simply willfully ignorant, it has nothing to do with caring.

At the end of the day, though, nothing you can say will stop me from enjoying playing Sage (and other classes too) as it is right now. And nothing you can say can stop me from saying that.

Nobody was trying to stop you from enjoying classes as they are right now, if you thought that it just adds more credence to you not understanding what you're reading. Keep enjoying the classes we've all been there.

I don't think SE cares that I don't run in a static or do Ultimates: I still pay as much or more per month as the people who do.
If SE delayed new content a month or two to implement the changes you want, who knows, people like me might leave.

That would be unfortunate but a worthy sacrifice to achieve something more.

And I think people like me are far more numerous than the people who protest that SE healers aren't the healers they ought to be.

Ignorance will always have majority.

Perhaps that's why so many of you seem so intent to drive me off this thread.
Perhaps you want SE to only hear your voice, and mistake it for a majority view.
I mean, that's the whole point of "cancel culture," isn't it?

You're becoming a quite literal caricature of the "I don't care it doesn't affect me."

Nobody is trying to do anything to you other than make you understand something from a different viewpoint, which from your owns words you don't care about as long as you are having fun.

Time will tell whether SE listens. And we'll all do what we do in response.
But please, don't threaten to "move to Canada" unless you really will.

The fact you think you're not the one moving to Canada says a lot about how you view the world and how it revolves.

I'm fine with any label you want to hang on them, as long as I still get fast duty roulette pops.
But I think I'm repeating myself.

It'll be fine.

[MiaShino]

If you want all four "healers" to be viable "healers" in all the content, that seems pretty difficult.

Other MMOs handled this in past times with minimal issue.

Let's say, hypothetically, WHM becomes a "pure healer" and SGE stays what someone here called a "gimped damage dealer."

No healer is ever pure healer they are all gimed deeps in every single mmo. Sure sure some mmos require more healing which means that downtime is less buuuuut; What do we do when the party is full health? DPS the bad guy.

Can you have content that that requires the (assumed) higher healing output of the WHM, that is still doable with the SGE?

Easily. You do this same way every other design team has rationalized in games that have support. Sage will work harder to reach same healing output as White Mage but find maintaining the stream of outgoing damage more of the easier. My Sage/Sorcerer in Swtor was more of regen low output healer. Had numerous players insisting that it was worst healer and I should switch from it to Merc. Find out they were all healbots and laughed in infinite MP while they overheated/ran out of energy and ate floor. Could easily solo heal the most difficult content in there with my "underpowered" healer. Planned in advance for outgoing bursty damage with hots while specing into overpowered tactical that turned my nuke into a nuke + heal.

And can you have content that require the DPS contribution of the SGE, but is still doable on the WHM?

Again yes. Sage will have lower burst and lower direct healing output. Should be balanced in such a way that would allow Sage to maintain outgoing damage without interrupting to heal. White Mage would be opposite. High burst damage and direct healing with fewer tools for maintaining that burst forcing it to interrupt damage output for healing.

Sooo Sage maintains near 100% dps uptime even while healing. Uses mitigation and pre-planning to circumvent need for big burst healing.

White Mage can only maintain near 80% dps uptime. Makes up that 20% difference by having high burst during downtime (no healing needed).

Both can achieve same theoretical or near identical theoretical output whilst having unique methods of getting there. White Mage burst healing solidifies it as the "beginner friendly" healer.

Perhaps you can, but it seems a lot more difficult to do than what the situation we have now.

What we have now requires zero balancing at'all so, I suppose! What I suggested above has been staple across other games though and for reason. It is also simple method for balancing yet produces far more interesting class design. Even Overwatch managed this.. You do not play Lucio in same way you did Mercy buuuuuut both are incredibly valuable to the team.

Of course, you could always take the easy path and dumb everything down so that the higher heals of the WHM and the DPS contribution of the SGE are never required, but I don't think anyone wants that.

This is what we have though? So you are most correct! We do not want this anymore. Tis not working no it is not. Hence the myriad of threads about it...

And then there's the go-hear-kill-this quests in the MSQ: do we eliminate them, gimp them for pure healers, or what?
After all, while arguments here seem to center on group and endgame content, solo MSQ progression is still a major part of the game.

All of those quests are already mind-numbingly easy and designed so that all roles can complete them. This would not change if all healers had class complexity and deeps options. What would change is that we might be pressing more then one button while doing them as healer and welp, I will take that!

[Anhra]

I always wondered why Squeenix suddenly got this weird fixation that Healer Jobs were in sudden need (since SB) of Diapers in all PvE Content, while the rest of the Jobs get mostly free reign.

Healer is suppoest to be a specialist Job and overall, will always be harder than any Tank or DPS, no matter how much you dumb it down, because unlike the other two Roles who only need to focus the Enemy infront of them, the Healer got ANOTHER Enemy to take care of, which is the own Party.

The best solution to the whole Healer mess would be to make all 4 Healers of varying Skill CEILINGs (not Skill Floor!). Keep WHM as Babies first Healer, turn Sage into a medium difficulty Healer that attacks and Heals at the same time, AST into a RNG utility Support with only regen effects and SCH pure utility with Shields only for experts.

Oh, and give all of them proper DPS kits that arent just placebo Spells, for Christs sake.

But thats just my take on it.