In regards to something involving the main cast

[aveyond-dreams]

And as Fourchenault points out the Garleans took that territory from someone else as well. It’s been 8 centuries at some point you don’t get to use that as an excuse to hurt others.

I don't care whether its been 8 centuries or not. If there is no access to suitable farmland for food production then the nation is at risk of starving. 8 centuries of perpetual food shortages and people struggling is an unacceptable situation. A good leader would take whatever steps they can to alleviate that situation instead of pushing their people into increasingly dire situations in the name of pacifism, especially when the surrounding nations refuse to extend that curtesy to the Garleans.

In FFXIV's world everyone has taken territory from someone else at one point in time. It's just the facts. The Garleans aren't saints in this regard and neither are the Eorzean and Eastern nations.

I find it funny that 800 years is to soon for nations that attacked Garlemelds ancestors to switch from that to being willing to trade when in the real world right now we have had European nations that quite literally tried to genocide each other less then a century ago argue that sanctions on them shouldn't be to harsh because there a valuable trading partner. LOL

For as much as you seem to worship Europe you don't seem to know its history very well.

The Timescale between Garlemald losing there lands till they became an Imperialist empire is so long that it's actually more believable if you assume the Ascians spent those centuries purposely keeping them mad and bitter because time and basic economics would have logically dulled them quite a bit, especially when by all accounts they hadn't been attacked in the many hundreds of years since.

Except that clearly did not happen and even in todays world there are groups of people who still fight over who has the true right to X ancestral territory of whatever location. No beneficial relationships seemed to have formed and again, Venat is the true person to blame for inadvertently creating a subset of humanoids that were handicapped compared to the rest by the fact that cannot use magic. You don't need to think about Ascians when the simpler solution is that a Mystic Knight from Corvos > beats ordinary Garlean soldier with no magic.

[KariTheFox]

I don't care whether its been 8 centuries or not. If there is no access to suitable farmland for food production then the nation is at risk of starving. 8 centuries of perpetual food shortages and people struggling is an unacceptable situation. A good leader would take whatever steps they can to alleviate that situation instead of pushing their people into increasingly dire situations in the name of pacifism, especially when the surrounding nations refuse to extend that curtesy to the Garleans.

Except creating an aggressive, expansionist nation just led most of the other nations of the world banding together specifically to oppose them.

So if your goal as a leader is let your people be happy and prosperous in the long term, it would be better to open up peaceful, diplomatic relations with other nations.

Of course, Emet-Selch/Solus's goal was absolutely not the long term prosperity of the Garlean people. So I don't know why we're taking his empire-building project as something for the good of the Garlean People, when it led to the current status quo in the space of a generation.

[EaraGrace]

I don't care whether its been 8 centuries or not. If there is no access to suitable farmland for food production then the nation is at risk of starving. 8 centuries of perpetual food shortages and people struggling is an unacceptable situation. A good leader would take whatever steps they can to alleviate that situation instead of pushing their people into increasingly dire situations in the name of pacifism, especially when the surrounding nations refuse to extend that curtesy to the Garleans.

In FFXIV's world everyone has taken territory from someone else at one point in time. It's just the facts. The Garleans aren't saints in this regard and neither are the Eorzean and Eastern nations.

Burning Dalmasca was definitely needed to get farmland I’m sure.

[SannaR]

I can understand the want to get back at those of the nations that drove you to live in a frozen tundra. That however is where I draw the line. I doubt nations outside of Ilsabard were responsible let alone still existed after that length of time. Look at the two countries Ul'Dah built on top of. It's not like they didn't have trade and yes importing one's food supplies isn't cheap. Yet when your only trade agreement has a heavy stipulation of please ignore and don't interfere with our forceful take over of other countries or else that goes with it is it really any surprise that most saw that as a deal breaker? Especially when the main reason to invade in the first place is so you can sow chaos and feed the propaganda machine of "See!? Even our fellow man can be pushed to behave like those savage beastmen in summoning their gods. Who else but We will teach them to learn that religion is bad?" While ignoring that those gods are summoned from the fear of being taken over. Oh and everyone who's not from a rich family and from the various cities, a pure blood, or not even Garlean sucks. As even Nero was seen as a lesser just because he wasn't a rich kid from the city, but as a kid that worked hard to prove himself from the countryside.

Addressing the original topic... they didn't seem to have any rituals for burial when it comes to concepts as any failed one's got taken to the waters of Lethe and unmade there. It's in the sight seeing logs. Yes many ancients worry that a strong gust of wind or even doing barely anything will make us dissipate due to how thin our aether is. Yet those same few want to poke and prod us because we come off as a curiosity. Even the loloprits think we're children when we first meet them. Heck even after Emet fixes our aether and resizes us they still make a comment about your size being off if your a Lalafell or a Roegadyn.

On the whole murder hobo bit just because we aren't seen incapacitating everyone we deplete the hp of via the use of a key item doesn't mean we're killing everything all willy-nilly. If that's the case then why aren't those who live in Twine upset when we defeated their friends or the Chai's when we finally get to dealing with Vauthry and run through all of Gatetown? We took their HP to zero didn't we? Some here are starting to remind me of those who died on the hill of "The Scions suck cause we never see them fighting things in cutscenes and therfore they must not actually do anything let alone any of the fighting." crowd you'd see make posts in the general section back during late SB days.

[Luizgazen]

If a dog is raised on a leash being constantly beaten, he'll grow as a violent creature that will attack anyone if ever freed. The garleans spent 800 years "on a leash, being constantly beaten" so it is understandable that the very concept of treating the weaker side with dignity is alien to them, they were only repeating how they had been treated by the magic wielding races for as far as they could remember.

[KariTheFox]

If a dog is raised on a leash being constantly beaten, he'll grow as a violent creature that will attack anyone if ever freed. The garleans spent 800 years "on a leash, being constantly beaten" so it is understandable that the very concept of treating the weaker side with dignity is alien to them, they were only repeating how they had been treated by the magic wielding races for as far as they could remember.

Is there any evidence for the "Garleans were mistreated constantly for centuries by magic wielding races" that isn't just Garleans saying as much because they were raised on that incredibly convenient for thier narrative propaganda?

All we know for sure is that 800 years ago the people who eventually became Garlemald were driven from more valuable land by a more powerful nation- and that centuries later a manipulative ancient wizard used that historical fact as part of a casus belli for a aggressive campaign of expansion and imperialism.

This historical fact might justify the occupation of Corvos (but even that is pretty flimsy) but how could it possibly justify the invasion and occupation of Doma or Eorzea? Nations that are so geographically removed from Garlemald that they could never have been involved in any subjugation of Garlemald.

[SentioftheHoukai]

Well..... I can certainly think of one way Emet-Selch and Venat are precisely the same. No matter what idea or theory THE OTHER posits, you're gonna have legions of people lining up to ready the crosses for Crucifixion if you dare to insinuate literally anything that doesn't wholeheartedly support one side or the other's prime directive. I honestly do wonder if Endwalker is FFXIV's "burning the tree" moment. While I personally doubt it, I'm beginning to see signs.

Anyway, if this post counts as a derail who even cares, am I right? This thread left the rails a loooooooong time ago.

[KariTheFox]

Varis was under no obligation to just roll over especially when (the default for most monarchies) is that the line of direct male descendants takes precedent. Varis is the son of the former heir to the empire, it isn't more complicated than that and given the situation I would view his uncle as more of a usurper than him.

I almost didn't catch this - but the rules of succession for the Garlean throne did not exist, Solus was the first and only Emperor and more than likely didn't establish any rules before deciding to die specifically to engineer a succession crisis.

Male-preference primogeniture isn't a "default" for succession, it arose out of a specific context in medieval Europe that the fictional setting of FFXIV does not reflect. Varis was less trying to follow the rules of succession, and more trying to establish a precedent that benefited him.

[Slatersev]

I almost didn't catch this - but the rules of succession for the Garlean throne did not exist, Solus was the first and only Emperor and more than likely didn't establish any rules before deciding to die specifically to engineer a succession crisis.

Male-preference primogeniture isn't a "default" for succession, it arose out of a specific context in medieval Europe that the fictional setting of FFXIV does not reflect. Varis was less trying to follow the rules of succession, and more trying to establish a precedent that benefited him.

Yes, it would have completely defeated the purpose of Emet-Selch's plan for him to have left a clear Succession plan. Literally goes against his own goals completely.