I'm back from Lost Ark

[Kolsykol]

Once you are at endgame, you can get your dailies and even your weeklies done on reset in a matter of a couple hours. Dailies alone you can get done in half an hour on your main. If you play alts, just add 15-30 minutes of dailies each IF you do that everyday, otherwise you can just not play your alts for days to stack up rested exp.

Honestly that's a lot for dailies alone, and actually doing the raid content is an enormous ladder that lets be real here ties into the irl cash shop.
Would you not say that getting geared and actually involved in raiding in Lost Ark is SIGNIFICANTLY more time-consuming + has RNG elements tied to the shop too?
Alts are also a pretty big deal in Lost Ark, obviously the MSQ especially from the start in FFXIV is going to be a huge time investement but I view that as a separate thing because it's not really part of the endgame.
In FFXIV I can just buy the crafted gear off the market board and be ready to go and it's not even expensive.

If you actually want to do the hardest endgame content then there's some pretty huge walls you'll run into in Lost Ark that are incredibly time consuming and full of whales.

[SturmChurro]

Honestly that's a lot for dailies alone, and actually doing the raid content is an enormous ladder that lets be real here ties into the irl cash shop.
Would you not say that getting geared and actually involved in raiding in Lost Ark is SIGNIFICANTLY more time-consuming + has RNG elements tied to the shop too?
Alts are also a pretty big deal in Lost Ark, obviously the MSQ especially from the start in FFXIV is going to be a huge time investement but I view that as a separate thing because it's not really part of the endgame.
In FFXIV I can just buy the crafted gear off the market board and be ready to go and it's not even expensive.

No. It's more time consuming to get endgame gear in FFXIV. I am locked out every week, I can't finish my tomestone gear for weeks, it takes even more weeks on top of that get a weapon. I haven't even finished my tomestone set on white mage. God forbid I try gearing my Red Mage or Tank.. I don't do savage, but that apparently has an rng element too on top of it all.

You don't need to be 1490 in Lost Ark right now. It is completely unnecessary, and significantly more expensive (whether you are spending real money, or gold+mats) right now than it will be if players just waited until more content is released where ilvl being that high actually matters.

If that's a lot for dailies. Let's think about how long it takes to do your savage reclears every week, how long does it take for you to cap out your tomes every week. To do your weekly 24-man. How long does that all collectively take in any given week?

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

No. It's more time consuming to get endgame gear in FFXIV. I am locked out every week, I can't finish my tomestone gear for weeks, it takes even more weeks on top of that get a weapon. I haven't even finished my tomestone set on white mage. God forbid I try gearing my Red Mage or Tank.. I don't do savage, but that apparently has an rng element too on top of it all.

You don't need to be 1490 in Lost Ark right now. It is completely unnecessary, and significantly more expensive (whether you are spending real money, or gold+mats) right now than it will be if players just waited until more content is released where ilvl being that high actually matters.

You don't need tomestone gear to raid tho, you can do it in full crafted, which you can get day 1 of a patch.

And even then, full parties negate any ilvl requirements in XIV.


AFAIK in lost Ark, no such system exists. You need the gear to even enter the raids, and to be able to do that day one costs real money.

[SturmChurro]

You don't need tomestone gear to raid tho, you can do it in full crafted, which you can get day 1 of a patch.

And even then, full parties negate any ilvl requirements in XIV.


AFAIK in lost Ark, no such system exists. You need the gear to even enter the raids, and to be able to do that day one costs real money.

So you can buy crafted gear off the marketboard, can you not pay your way to endgame in Lost Ark? I got to 1370 in one day on Glavier. That class was released last week. By the way, I haven't spent a dime on progression.

For context, 1370 would be considered endgame, and give you access to all current raids in Lost Ark (Argos+hard mode abyss). Sorry I forgot about Velganos, nobody does him though.

[AziraSyuren]

FF14 is definitely hard carried by its content design, which is pretty consistently good. Even the easier battle content at least looks cool, as zzzzzzzzzzzzzz as it might be.

Unfortunately, the casual or non-battle content is usually either really dull, inaccessible (ironically), or criminally undersupported. Sometimes all 3.

[Kolsykol]

No. It's more time consuming to get endgame gear in FFXIV. I am locked out every week, I can't finish my tomestone gear for weeks, it takes even more weeks on top of that get a weapon. I haven't even finished my tomestone set on white mage. God forbid I try gearing my Red Mage or Tank.. I don't do savage, but that apparently has an rng element too on top of it all.

You don't need to be 1490 in Lost Ark right now. It is completely unnecessary, and significantly more expensive (whether you are spending real money, or gold+mats) right now than it will be if players just waited until more content is released where ilvl being that high actually matters.

If that's a lot for dailies. Let's think about how long it takes to do your savage reclears every week, how long does it take for you to cap out your tomes every week. To do your weekly 24-man. How long does that all collectively take in any given week?

Well it's true with the timegating which is a problem I have too.
But yeah '' right now '', because Lost Ark is very behind on content in EU/NA.
That's going to change tho I mean it's like saying that you didn't need the crafted gear before because Savage wasn't out yet.

I don't think you can compare clearing Savage to doing dailies either.
I can still login and be done for the whole week in one sitting in FFXIV, whether that's a good thing or not depends on how invested you want to be in one game which was kinda my point.
If you actually want to be '' relevant/ up to date '' in Lost Ark it's going to be way more intense on like every level than in FFXIV.

I got into Savage in EW and I'll get my eight P4S clear next reset and I'll have BiS on five Jobs ( minus weapon on either MNK or SAM and DRG but 600 on all at least ) with a ton of extra Savage gear scattered around other Jobs.
It's true that there's time gating especially if you have bad RNG and don't win the chests ( which I rarely do, my RNG is shit ).
But it also leads more directly into rewards with less time invested.

You don't need tomestone gear to raid tho, you can do it in full crafted, which you can get day 1 of a patch.

And even then, full parties negate any ilvl requirements in XIV.


AFAIK in lost Ark, no such system exists. You need the gear to even enter the raids, and to be able to do that day one costs real money.

It's a secret, but I bought gear on SGE and jumped into P3S and healed it for my first time healing anything other than dungeons basically lol.
It was totally fine if a bit hectic because I wasn't used to it ( especially in the Fountains phase that scared the hell out of me ).

I feel like in FFXIV the difference between crafted gear and BiS isn't quite as steep as in most other MMO's.
It's obviously a big difference, but it's a big difference for FFXIV specifically.

[Ransu]

Have you played Lost Ark, do you know what exactly they are paying for?

If you don't think lost ark is p2w then you have definitely never played it lol.

[Driavna]

Honestly that's a lot for dailies alone, and actually doing the raid content is an enormous ladder that lets be real here ties into the irl cash shop.
Would you not say that getting geared and actually involved in raiding in Lost Ark is SIGNIFICANTLY more time-consuming + has RNG elements tied to the shop too?
Alts are also a pretty big deal in Lost Ark, obviously the MSQ especially from the start in FFXIV is going to be a huge time investement but I view that as a separate thing because it's not really part of the endgame.
In FFXIV I can just buy the crafted gear off the market board and be ready to go and it's not even expensive.

If you actually want to do the hardest endgame content then there's some pretty huge walls you'll run into in Lost Ark that are incredibly time consuming and full of whales.

Lost Ark content will always be relevant to your character ILVL so in reality you can progress at whatever pace it suits you while having fun. Honestly, it's more a mentality problem of "I want it now" than anything else. MMO's were supposed to be a long term hobby and some still enjoy meaningful progression.

[MintnHoney]

If you don't think lost ark is p2w then you have definitely never played it lol.

I feel like a game that had whales complaining that they have nothing to spend their money on is hard to describe as p2w.

[Kolsykol]

Lost Ark content will always be relevant to your character ILVL so in reality you can progress at whatever pace it suits you while having fun. Honestly, it's more a mentality problem of "I want it now" than anything else. MMO's were supposed to be a long term hobby and some still enjoy meaningful progression.

I really feel like we're just talking about different things and from different povs, I mean to some extent this is true in FFXIV too..
I am mainly talking about doing the current endgame raiding content and getting BiS seeing my numbers go up and feeling like my character is '' done '' which is what I am the most interested in.

The whole P2W thing is a touchy subject matter and everyone has different views on what it is and isn't and how much time they're willing to invest and what their goals are etc.
But to get the equivelant experience in FFXIV but in Lost Ark I just think it's true that it's way more time consuming.
It's not directly equivelant because they're different games tho.

It's the same with GW2 for example you can just buy the gear on the market board ( there's other gear too for specific content tho ).
So yeah I'd say that GW2 is even less of a time investement and that's also one of the major draws of the game.
In the end of the day Lost Ark is designed around people logging in every day and spending a couple of hours at least and if you want to actually do the equivelant of getting full BiS in FFXIV in Lost Ark then yeah you're going to be pushing much harder.

The numerical difference is also significantly higher between people who do that and people who don't than in FFXIV which is something I do care about too.
I like feeling as if the main thing that is influencing my performance is my ability to play gear isn't a hurdle I want to spend too much time on and also not something that I want to make an enormous difference.
But then you have other people who rly enjoy that, people in BDO for example who enjoy emptying their wallets or completely no-life:ing the game so that they can stomp low geared players with a blindfold on.

I feel like a game that had whales complaining that they have nothing to spend their money on is hard to describe as p2w.

This is because the game is behind in EU/ NA so yeah.
It'll become more true with time I think, but what you're describing is more indicative of how slow they are with releasing the content in the West.

Edit: In the end of the day I think that yes Lost Ark is P2W.
To what extent is a different matter, I'd also say that GW2 is P2W but to a very small degree.

There's degrees to this the question is moreso where Lost Ark lies rather than if it is.