6.11 PVE Changes are utterly tone deaf

[Kalaam]

The community holds the devs on too high of a pedestal.
Yes Yoshi-P saved the game from its catastrophic launch, yes he and his team are likable.
But doesn't mean they are above criticism or cannot make mistakes, they aren't gods.
You CAN disaggree with their vision, or point out issues in their game design. Heck, that's exactly what Yoshida claimed was important to listen to when he took over !
But now the community cannot stand anything that isn't elogious and it hurts the game as a result.
Of course, no need to insult the devs or be a jerk when sharing negative opinion or critics either. This doesn't help anything.
But yes, toxic positivity is a thing and it's hurting the game in the long run.

[ThorneDynasty]

I will say that some of the SAM criticism I've been seeing is ridiculously toxic and completely unhelpful to the overall message the fans are trying to convey. Like calling the entire job design team incompetent and worse because they didn't revert a major job change in a minor patch. Yes it was a bad change in the major patch, but manage your expectations little, don't be a child. They never do more than numbers adjustments and bugfixes for jobs in a +0.01.

[xAFROx]

I will say that some of the SAM criticism I've been seeing is ridiculously toxic and completely unhelpful to the overall message the fans are trying to convey. Like calling the entire job design team incompetent and worse because they didn't revert a major job change in a minor patch. Yes it was a bad change in the major patch, but manage your expectations little, don't be a child. They never do more than numbers adjustments and bugfixes for jobs in a +0.01.

I would assume the same, but I can't recall what patch it was when Hagakure was given back to really say. But I think the general consensus was supposed to be that they wanted feedback about the changes and now that it's been 2 weeks to give that feedback and it all being a resounding negative from each community, they would've changed it as the entire change to SAM to begin with was in fact potency adjustments and the removal of an ability that boosts potency.

I think that should be fairly easy to reverse no matter what patch they're on, but if the feedback they actually wanted was Ultimate, then them not addressing our feedback in any way makes a bit more sense. (Even though not everyone plays ultimate)

[KizuyaKatogami]

I will say that some of the SAM criticism I've been seeing is ridiculously toxic and completely unhelpful to the overall message the fans are trying to convey. Like calling the entire job design team incompetent and worse because they didn't revert a major job change in a minor patch. Yes it was a bad change in the major patch, but manage your expectations little, don't be a child. They never do more than numbers adjustments and bugfixes for jobs in a +0.01.

I mean….look at their comments about healers, and doing nothing with them for the past 6 years. Is there a nice word for incompetence? That’s very much what they are at this point. Ignorant?

[SargeTheSeagull]

Sry i'm not agreed with what you mean. For a controller player is the removel from the Skill Hissatsu Kaiten very good and I dont want it back.

Controller player here, stop talking about things you don’t understand.

[Ryaz]

Controller player here, stop talking about things you don’t understand.

I'm pretty sure he understands it. He just prefers it gone. Which si fine as it's his opinion.

[MikoRemi]

I'm pretty sure he understands it. He just prefers it gone. Which si fine as it's his opinion.

Opinion or not, it can be judged. And it is an abhorent one at that.

Especially since overall it is a horrible change with huge consequences as a result. What's stopping SE from removing Reassemble from Machinist if Kaiten stays gone? If all those kinds of skills go away with nothing added, the list will just keep going on and on if nobody says anything. If they truly wanted to deal with button bloat, Ikishoten turn into Ogi Namikiri or something. Iaijutsu can become Tsubame-gaeshi instead of them being two different buttons. Heck, there are many jobs that could have an actual adjustment that way, yet they choose to remove Kaiten which was a great way to enhance finishers and also have some style to the job.

Defending this sort of thing will only lead to more stagnation. Lower the skill floor, not the ceiling.

[Ryaz]

Opinion or not, it can be judged. And it is an abhorent one at that.

Especially since overall it is a horrible change with huge consequences as a result. What's stopping SE from removing Reassemble from Machinist if Kaiten stays gone? If all those kinds of skills go away with nothing added, the list will just keep going on and on if nobody says anything. If they truly wanted to deal with button bloat, Ikishoten turn into Ogi Namikiri or something. Iaijutsu can become Tsubame-gaeshi instead of them being two different buttons. Heck, there are many jobs that could have an actual adjustment that way, yet they choose to remove Kaiten which was a great way to enhance finishers and also have some style to the job.

Defending this sort of thing will only lead to more stagnation. Lower the skill floor, not the ceiling.

Funny you say that when all the angry people here are up in arms for having their own opinions judged negatively. Guess it only goes one way here.

And once again note- I want Kaiten back. But the obvious way the forums disregard others opinions while getting upset when their own opinions are attacked is a bit hypocritical. Aka, typical human behavior.

[MikoRemi]

Funny you say that when all the angry people here are up in arms for having their own opinions judged negatively. Guess it only goes one way here.

And once again note- I want Kaiten back. But the obvious way the forums disregard others opinions while getting upset when their own opinions are attacked is a bit hypocritical. Aka, typical human behavior.

Generally because many of the counterarguments again, lead to stagnation or just prove to show only contempt from either an ignorant point of view or just one that has had too much Kool Aid.

Most of the times I've seen people get their opinions attacked and then get upset tend to be the ones who provoke the crowd by calling them "petty" for being mad over "one button" among other things, which is already provocative in of itself but also extremely dismissive to the actual conversations. A disagreement generally isn't really hated on if it at least makes sense and also doesn't try to talk down to others. Once people try those things though, they're opening themselves to their own medicine.

I want Kaiten too and I'm being polite about it, but I can understand the maddening frustration from all sorts of classes. Hell, I play Machinist which has been in quite a state since Stormblood with the only difference being the kind of state it has been in, and plenty more classes are looking for some kind of good changes around here. Having to wait so long for basic things is quite painful and so I can at least have empathy for that. Generally it's good to start with pleasantries, however when pleasantries aren't listened to then things just get uglier by default. Call it human but it's either that or simply follow the definition of insanity.

[FrogBiscuit]

I'm pretty sure he understands it. He just prefers it gone. Which si fine as it's his opinion.

Pretty sure he doesn't understand as weather it is his opinion or not, as he effectively stated that he was talking for other controller using players...

I mean sure, fine if he was just saying, 'i like it better this way' a response of 'what, really?! why?!' would be understandable, but he didn't and he claimed to speak for others...

That's no longer sharing a personal opinion and also the primary reason you found people responding to him the way they did.