DPS/Healers pulling in dungeons

[Vahlnir]

I’d expect someone who doesn’t want to know the answer to reply something like this. You’re free to waste his time with questions of your own.

I mean, I already know the answer, so...

Tank main with roughly 16-17 years of MMO experience who doesn't have any speed issues with pulling mobs, by the way.

[Ath192]

I mean, I already know the answer, so...

Tank main with over a decade of MMO experience who doesn't have any speed issues with pulling mobs, by the way.

I've legit never had a problem with this either. But I know decent behavior vs impatience, and I know how to be respectful in a duty finder encounter. But hey, we don't have a definitive answer, maybe we'll be surprised by his answer. Or maybe they intend for it to be a gray area. Only one way to find out. By asking. Odds are, however, its the tanks. If I had to put my money somewhere.

[Vahlnir]

I've legit never had a problem with this either. But I know decent behavior vs impatience, and I know how to be respectful in a duty finder encounter. But hey, we don't have a definitive answer, maybe we'll be surprised by his answer. Or maybe they intend for it to be a gray area. Only one way to find out. By asking. Odds are, however, its the tanks. If I had to put my money somewhere.

Tanks pulling has been an MMO staple since...well, forever, in games that utilize tanks, healers and dps. We don't need Yoshi P to tell us anything on this. Seriously. This is just unnecessary. How things have worked from the start is our answer.

[Ath192]

Tanks pulling has been an MMO staple since...well, forever, in games that utilize tanks, healers and dps. We don't need Yoshi P to tell us anything on this. Seriously. This is just unnecessary.

I think its necesarry. I think people need to hear it from him. But you do you. Unless you have some plan to deprive others of their free will that could potentially work I would refrain from telling others what they can feel is necessary and what isn't.

Also it was customary for a ranged class or a puller to bring the mob into the party where the tank would take over in FFXI. So its safe to say it hasn't been a staple in the other half of Final Fantasy's MMOs since they only have 2.

[Vahlnir]

Unless you have some plan to deprive others of their free will that could potentially work I would refrain from telling others what they can feel is necessary and what isn't.

You're...something else. Take that however you want. Not trying to deprive anyone of their "free will'. Just...what? I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to disagree with others on a public forum of I want, unless you have some plan to deprive others of their free will.

[Ath192]

You're...something else. Take that however you want. Not trying to deprive anyone of their "free will'. Just...what? I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to disagree with others on a public forum of I want, unless you have some plan to deprive others of their free will.

I'll put a positive spin on it. Don't worry.

[Vahlnir]

I'll put a positive spin on it. Don't worry.

Yeah, I'd expect nothing less from you.

[TaleraRistain]

Tanks pulling has been an MMO staple since...well, forever, in games that utilize tanks, healers and dps. We don't need Yoshi P to tell us anything on this. Seriously. This is just unnecessary. How things have worked from the start is our answer.

DPS or even healer classes pulled in EverQuest. Rangers and druids had skills like snare to slow the mobs down as they brought them back to the tank. Monks could bring the mobs back to the tank's feet and then feign death to drop all aggro. Most tanks just wouldn't survive that many mobs hitting on them away from healers (because things hit like Mack trucks), so that's why DPS did it. Later on shadowknights, a tank class, got the feign death ability so they were added to the pulling roster but usually still bringing things back to another tank. The big difference in that era of MMOs was that everyone waited back at camp while someone went out and pulled mobs to it. Though it was so ingrained in us that even when we got instanced dungeons, we still kept to the same camp and run back mentality. Though to be fair, the design also pretty much required that, even if it changed to progressively making our way through different pull spots in the dungeon.

Whenever these threads come up and people go on about being a team based game, I wonder why we don't condemn *both* mentalities. If we're a team, we should move together, no? If a member of the team is paused for a moment, why aren't we encouraging staying with them and making sure we move as a unit? Why don't we trust other members to know what they're capable of, and support each other in our roles? Why do we allow any lone wolf actions in a team based game?

[MiaShino]

I've legit never had a problem with this either. But I know decent behavior vs impatience, and I know how to be respectful in a duty finder encounter. But hey, we don't have a definitive answer, maybe we'll be surprised by his answer. Or maybe they intend for it to be a gray area. Only one way to find out. By asking. Odds are, however, its the tanks. If I had to put my money somewhere.

The answer is within the tos around Lethargic Play and Nescience Behavior. You are prohibited from pk'ing others by manipulating Enmity generating actions or failing to perform your role when could have.

Those who think it is acceptable can and perhaps should spend some time waiting for the GM in Goal.

[Ath192]

The answer is within the tos around Lethargic Play and Nescience Behavior. You are prohibited from pk'ing others by manipulating Enmity generating actions or failing to perform your role when could have.

Those who think it is acceptable can and perhaps should spend some time waiting for the GM in Goal.

You're focusing on the wrong thing. While I agree a tank should do their job the actual question is whether DPS and Healers should pull to being with. This pattern always emerges where non-tanks think its okay, and then it turns into a personal crusade against tanks that try to retaliate towards that behavior by refusing to tank.

It's very clear to me DPS would like to coerce the tanks into putting up with them and wield the report card if they dare refuse. This is rather toxic imo. But I'm interested in looking at whether the initial behavior is acceptable or not. That of the DPS pulling. It would change the conversation from (A) the tanks having to put up with whatever the DPS feel like doing or (B) the Tanks being considerate and making up for the mistakes that the DPS are doing by pulling.

Personally I side with B.

1. DPS is doing wrong by pulling
2. Tanks need to adjust and save the day by compensating

I say this as a non tank main too. So I'm not trying to boost my ego here.