Jobs need Status Ailments, Buffs and Debuffs back!

[IckeDerTyp]

Have my bump! ^^

[Jin-]

It's a double edged sword. I'd be fine more class identity than balanced classes as long as it is fun. But raiders probably disagree and the combat is balanced them in mind and the people who don't want to bother at all.

I don't believe you can have balance and unique class toolkit in the same sentence

[Mikey_R]

So, no examples of what you want? Just saying 'more buffs/debuffs' doesn't tell me anything. Are these on a cooldown, are they part of your rotation etc. With such a vague OP, it is hard to know exactly what you are trying to achieve.

[Souljacker]

If we could silence, stun or paralyze a raid boss, it would be overpowered because we could interrupt the worst mechanics.

Can you clarify why this would be overpowered?

You know, back before the homogenization and dumbing down of everything, RPGs had very carefully designed bosses that you needed to use all your abilities, your team's abilities, and your team's synergy to defeat and you know what? We were all fine. We all turned out a-ok. In fact, that's literally the history and heritage of these games going back to the original game on NES. This idea that we can't have classic RPG abilities because they would be overpowered really is just saying that the dev team is not skilled enough to design a challenging encounter around them.

Now that, well that's a real concern. And frankly it's one that they have been trying to solve by just adding more and more 'dancing'. The sheer amount of movement in some of these fights is absolutely silly. It's artificial difficulty. There's no real strategy, the encounters are literally all about how well you can keep pressing buttons while moving your character and remembering the dance.

[Dzian]

If those varied bosses followed each other in a single instance I would have agreed with your point. But raiding in XIV is confined to individual arena fights. People would just switch jobs for different floors and that doesn't sound like fun at all.

To be honest even if they didn't it would be fine. Failing that they could just do a potd style save system where you kill 1 tier. And use that save to enter the next..

But honestly sounds more fun than now where final Fantasy xiv. The game where you can play every job on one character but every job is exactly the same anyway.

You know, back before the homogenization and dumbing down of everything, RPGs had very carefully designed bosses that you needed to use all your abilities, your team's abilities, and your team's synergy to defeat and you know what? We were all fine. We all turned out a-ok. In fact, that's literally the history and heritage of these games going back to the original game on NES. This idea that we can't have classic RPG abilities because they would be overpowered really is just saying that the dev team is not skilled enough to design a challenging encounter around them.

Whats funny about this is SE are obsessed with turning the game into a single player experience to try and draw in players who have played the single player games.. but absolutely none of these elements that made the single players games what they were exist in XIV they've all been hollowed out and dumbed down to hell.

and it just makes it boring. endwalker pulled in some new players into my fc and not one still plays because omg its so boring... and theres friends in other fcs that have said much the same thing. even in a fc leaders linkshell im in it's been said a lot..

if you wantt o pull in the fans of single player games you need to build on the things that made the single player games great not dumb them tf down.. strengths weaknesses, diversity, between monsters bosses and jobs, buffs debuffs, even the elemental wheel. a staple of the final fantasy franchise...

[Soge01]

So, no examples of what you want? Just saying 'more buffs/debuffs' doesn't tell me anything. Are these on a cooldown, are they part of your rotation etc. With such a vague OP, it is hard to know exactly what you are trying to achieve.

I'm not the best when it comes to explaining things, especially in great detail. But I'll do my best to update my original post. xD

But to answer your post at the moment, certain jobs should have buffs, debuffs and status ailments integrated into their current rotation, along with a a small handful of abilities that can be used off hand that are on cooldown, but wouldn't interrupt your attack rotation as a consequence of using said abilities. Though, this obviously depends on the type of Job these three different sets of things should be integrated with.

For example, jobs like Samurai or Black Mage, should be able to function by almost solely focusing on just attacking, while maybe one thing they could use to save themselves or a party in case something goes wrong.

One thing I'm thankful the devs left on Black Mage from 2.0 was our ability to still put an entire group of trash mobs to sleep for a time. While recently leveling Black Mage on my main character, I had to use that ability to save either myself or what remained of my party after the Tank died a few times in Duty Finder.

In the case of Samurai, it'd be neat to see Third Eye get changed into something similar to Reaper's Arcane Crest, being an actual barrier that allows the user to absorb a small amount of damage and if it breaks, grants the Samurai a temporary attack boost and regan, alongside it still being able to fill up the Kenki gauge some.

While with a Job like Bard, it should be balanced around being able to provide an equal amount of buffs, debuffs and status ailments alongside its usual ability to attack, though its attack power being lowered as a result of being able to heavily provide multiple avenues of utility.

Meanwhile, Dancer could focus more on a balance of just attacking and buffing, like it already does. With maybe one or two debuff capabilities (like that Charm ability in PVP) and an increase in it's ability to mitigate damage and heal its party.

And Machinist could focus on just attacking and providing status ailments of various sorts. Changing Bioblaster to have a longer damage overtime effect, along with being able to apply Slow and Heavy to enemies it hits. Flamethrower being changed into a second damage over time. Giving Scattergun the ability to temporarily stun groups of enemies (when you don't have a White Mage in your party) and making abilities like Drill and Chain Saw be linked with eachother and provide a vulnerability effect, Drill to a single target and Chainsaw to a group of enemies. While Queen Automata could be change to instantly charge at an enemy while having its whole standing and crouching animation completely stripped from it to get rid of some of its jankiness, while also giving you the ability to command it to attack either a single target or a group of enemies and give it the bonus effect of temporarily taking all enmity you generated onto it, acting as your punching bag, while not being able to strip enmity from a tank; always purposely being lower than a Tank's (unless the tank is terrible or has too low level gear).

Meanwhile, Peloton, our group role ability for all range dps, could be redesigned to allow all three range dps to provide temporary instant increased in movement not only outside of a fight, but also in it, too. But since Scholar has Expedient, I think the easiest solution to when you have a ranged dps and this Healer on the same party is to allow them to stack their movement speed buffs together, so one won't overwrite or invalidate the other. Or just make Pelotan's movement speed boost in a fight a 5% increase instead of a 10 so it won't overshadow Scholar's Expedient in the increase movement speed department. xD

[Wind-Krysvein]

As a long-time WAR player, I'd support this 100%. Give me back my Skull Sunder.

Also, while I'm here... how about making it a thing to use the potion slot for things other than just small stat buffs? How about using Antidotes/Spine Drops/whatever to cure otherwise unhealable status ailments? Elemental Ward potions to survive certain raidwides? Status Resistance gear? Anything to spice up the game's combat without relying solely on fight-specific mechanics.

Wouldn't hold my breath about any of these requests going through, though. They've stated their reasons for simplifying combat/getting rid of debuffs, and there's probably very little chance of them ever reintroducing them. Not after going through so much trouble to remove all of them slowly so less people would notice.

[Soge01]

As a long-time WAR player, I'd support this 100%. Give me back my Skull Sunder.

Also, while I'm here... how about making it a thing to use the potion slot for things other than just small stat buffs? How about using Antidotes/Spine Drops/whatever to cure otherwise unhealable status ailments? Elemental Ward potions to survive certain raidwides? Status Resistance gear? Anything to spice up the game's combat without relying solely on fight-specific mechanics.

Wouldn't hold my breath about any of these requests going through, though. They've stated their reasons for simplifying combat/getting rid of debuffs, and there's probably very little chance of them ever reintroducing them. Not after going through so much trouble to remove all of them slowly so less people would notice.

Maybe Skull Sunder could be placed back onto Warrior as a completely different functioning move. Like, it could be changed into a second Stun ability or cause Parlysis along with a Bleed effect. Since it's called "Skull Sunder", I thought something like that would be perfect for it, lol!

Ooh! That would be a great addition to providing more use to potions! It'd also be cool if stat boosting potions could last more than just a couple of seconds but be more like food boosters and last from 30 minutes to an hour.

Honestly, I feel the same way. But if the devs don't do something to pull themselves out of the downward spiral they're setting themselves up in with all these homogenization changes, they're going to eventually wind up scaring off not only veterans, but casuals and newer players as well.

The housing system and the Samurai changes are a great example of them making terrible decisions, both in the past and now. Housing from the start should have been just instanced, while eventually providing small wards for single and FCs players that want a more neighborhood setting for their house.

And Samurai...the job was basically perfect before. Its bottom bloat issues, like many other job classes, were as a result of having too many skills/abilities that basically provided the same effect in a fight Getting rid of Kaiten was a terrible idea. And really, the only ability that shouldn't have even been linked to it was Ogi Namikari. Thst skill should have been instead linked to Kaeshi Namikiri and Kaeshi Setsugekka as an extra big final finishing move.

[Tyjacon]

Anyone remember FFXI?
If you weren't a specific job with specific gear and spells (yes most of the skills/spells had to be puchased) you were excluded from content.
Where do you think 'lolDRG' originated?

If jobs were given unique skills which are better than others, then it would exclude them from content beacuse "it's not meta"

It's the players playstyle that killed job individuality.
SE is just trying to not have a repeat of FFXI problems.

[Dzian]

Anyone remember FFXI?
If you weren't a specific job with specific gear and spells (yes most of the skills/spells had to be puchased) you were excluded from content.
Where do you think 'lolDRG' originated?

If jobs were given unique skills which are better than others, then it would exclude them from content beacuse "it's not meta"

It's the players playstyle that killed job individuality.
SE is just trying to not have a repeat of FFXI problems.

Yeah i Played FFXI for many years. maybe 10..

LOL drg originated from the dragoons 2hour ability.. and the loss of the wyvern for 2 hours if they died. absolutely crippling it. nothing to do with how unique it was.

jobs being excluded from content was also largely crap as well. there was no strict party compositions so you built around what jobs you had and made for some of the best experiences ever.

I used to tank on monk pretty frequently even against Byakko and other bosses. because a monks "counterstance" ability was incredibly strong against phyisical bosses. samurais also made very strong tanks with seigan third eye.. dancers solid healers...

FFXI was a game where your name and reputation mattered more than your job on some servers at least. if you were a selfish douche you'd not get groups even if you played the most desired of jobs.. but if you were a team player and carried a half decent rep. invites came quick. regardless of the job you were on. . the people obsessed with meta are the ones that spent 4 hours looking for a pary because if there was no ninja there was no tank.. an incredibly closed minded way of thinking.

FFXIV meta is overated anyway. all you really need to do is look at the history of materia. where for best part of 3 expansions most players didnt meld at all and noone cared.... it's only when the devs made it zero cost by allowing 100% successful removal that players started to bother. and even now a significant number still dont..

Same goes with foods and stuff noone cares if you dont pop consumables or stuff. and most people wouldnt give a monkeys if your job wasnt optimal.

being excluded or kicked from a party for not having certain spells is honestly no different to being excluded or getting kicked from parties here becuase your ilevel sucks... .. like how people set i590 on endsingers aria party farms even when the minimum is 580...