Hear me out: Should 14 have talent trees?

[Atelier-Bagur]

As if we have a choice now. Why play other tanks, when currently Warrior is the all around best for the role? Why play Black Mage where other magical classes are easier to play and have more party wide utility? These are just examples but hopefully you see where I'm getting at here. While I dont necessarily think we need Talent trees, I would'nt necessarily dismiss the idea of bringing back specialized customization for our jobs. It can be done, and games such as FFXI and FFV had a decent system with customizing your play style. Its a huge core part of rpgs are known for and its a shame this game is missing with that design. Stuff like this is a lot of fun when done right.

The problem is current FFXIV's combat design isnt tailored to have such a robust system anymore. Its too simplified for its own good, which is why we have these complaints threads about how mundane most jobs are as well as how this game has technically the most boring MMO combat system.

I for one just learned to live with it and enjoy for what it is, but I do hope that someday we get something a bit more substantial with class design. Ive said it before, whoever are the pvp job design team they are going in the right direction.

[Listrella]

no, as people have said, if someone didn't follow what people consider to be the optimum build, they'll get kicked from parties in high end contend (people are not likely to care in dungeons). that sort of things works in single player games, not in MMOs.

[BokoToloko]

I have to add that the lack of choice in MMORPGs is less of a game issue and way more of a online issue. Nowadays, viable is simply a synonym of "the most optimal", because anything less from the best is just "bad". Which seems to be pretty much agaisnt the freedom of choice in RPGs, ironically.

[RitsukoSonoda]

So much true lmao, hits home hard, i'm guilty of this, if it wasn't because they are stuck in the tank role, I wouldn't tank at all.

Anyway DRK and GNB being tanks is simply weird as heck to be honest, it's the only game that has done this.

Not really.

In most games DRK has access to tank gear and the VIT and HP to match making them a sort of tank that had the option to be self destructive when it needed to do more damage.

Canon wise when you look at the gunblade users in FFVIII they're labeled "Guardians" Which basically means they're meant to protect someone. Cloud's Soldier class in FFVII would also fit the tank role. In the case of Cloud and Squall ppl think their job is DPS because said characters have a huge damage passive called "Flagship character"

[P0W3RK1D]

The jobs themselves are the talent trees.

not nessecarily.
talent trees implies the player can choose thier class's direction, and where as one player might be able to make their white mage a bit tanker in exchange for a healing loss, another player coould make their white mage a glass cannon via talent trees.
but as of now there is no trees, everyones classes play almost the exact same. materia's effect is unnoticable without a parser and so many of the classes are stuck in flawed gameplay loops *cough* every single healer *cough*, and some are even approaching this cliff quickly (samurai) , and SE forces a 1 size fits all gameplay style...
TL;DR , no , there is no talent trees....personaly i wouldnt mind if there were.

[FoxyAreku]

no.

absolutely not. all that happens is people start kicking other people from raids for not having what people have decided are the optimal talents.

square already struggles with balancing issues.

As a WoW player, this has not been an issue like....ever?

The only time people kick is if you have bad performance. Bad talent options tends to make you have bad performance, but if your build works, literally no one cares what talents you picked. And since all the content in this game is so easy, even bad performance would be overlooked here like it currently is outside of savage (which most people do with statics anyway).

This game could really use something to make jobs not feel so static and boring imo. Especially with how much they are simplifying them lately.

[Adeacia]

not nessecarily.
talent trees implies the player can choose thier class's direction, and where as one player might be able to make their white mage a bit tanker in exchange for a healing loss, another player coould make their white mage a glass cannon via talent trees.
but as of now there is no trees, everyones classes play almost the exact same. materia's effect is unnoticable without a parser and so many of the classes are stuck in flawed gameplay loops *cough* every single healer *cough*, and some are even approaching this cliff quickly (samurai) , and SE forces a 1 size fits all gameplay style...
TL;DR , no , there is no talent trees....personaly i wouldnt mind if there were.

Other mmos force you to play one job per character. Here you choose your characters direction by playing different jobs. All talent trees will just end up at whatever does the most damage and anything else will get you kicked from parties. Saves the trouble as you can't not have access to the most optimal skills.

[FoxyAreku]

Other mmos force you to play one job per character. Here you choose your characters direction by playing different jobs. All talent trees will just end up at whatever does the most damage and anything else will get you kicked from parties. Saves the trouble as you can't not have access to the most optimal skills.

See above. No one gets kicked over talent choices alone.

Though to add on: Talents are also a way to change your build for varying situations/content, and this game just....doesn't have that, trash is too pitiful to build around it and everything else is singular bosses, so that'd have to change first I think.

[Allegor]

Color me strange, but I loved it. Tactics was hands-down my favorite FF game until 14 came along and the mechanic of leveling different classes to unlock others was something I really liked about it. I was stoked to find out XIV had it when I started playing. I agree that having meta cross-class skills was a bummer, the sub-class system hit my like of talent trees in an FF-appropriate way that I really appreciated. That's one reason I have so many jobs at 15/30 on this guy. If it hadn't been for that, I probably would never have touched them at all.

Well, it's just a me thing, call it ocd and/or taking rp too seriously, but I didn't like that I had to unlock a class I wasn't interested in, aesthetically or mechanically, and leave it there unleveled, pestering me every time I see it in my roster. That and the Amaro mount are the only reason I leveled all jobs, but if it were up to me, I'd only have 6, and only 2 of them are the vanilla jobs /shrug

[BokoToloko]

As a WoW player, this has not been an issue like....ever?

The only time people kick is if you have bad performance. Bad talent options tends to make you have bad performance, but if your build works, literally no one cares what talents you picked. And since all the content in this game is so easy, even bad performance would be overlooked here like it currently is outside of savage (which most people do with statics anyway).

This game could really use something to make jobs not feel so static and boring imo. Especially with how much they are simplifying them lately.

After reading post from TalesFromDF subreddit, I completely disagree. Outside of savage, people wants to clear stuff as far as possible, so anything that slows the run down can and will be noticed and shunned by other players. People in this community seem to want the optimal both in challenging and non-challenging content.

And, in WoW, there are PUGs that do take issue with builds but, though I've seen some people kicked out instantly for it, most cases the "wrong talent build" is asked first to change their talent before entering. And it's also worth mentioning there are a lot of people who mess around with builds while farming raids.

Only place where this applies are Bozja/Eureka and mostly because they can't track each and everyone.