Petition to keep non-instanced dungeons.

[Rokien]

Suborn Ignorance is not an Excuse.

Ya, but we are going to be the best lancer duo eva!

[Sephrick]

Hey man I love Rail shooters as much as the next guy, but I don't want my MMO on rails.

That makes no sense at all. If 2.0 will allow them to make things as dynamic as they say, there's significantly more they can do in an instance than an open dungeon.

But to throw your attitude right back at you, I can say "Hey man, I enjoy staring at my belly button just as much as the next guy, but that doesn't mean I want to stare at my belly button in an MMO."

Because that's what open world dungeons boil down to. Unchallenging key farming or sitting still waiting for the next NM pop window. The worst part is when you wait for that target monster to pop just for someone else to get claim. I love spending three hours of waiting for a pop just to watch someone else play the game.

Cutters' Cry is a great example of what can be done in an instance. Splitting up the team and requiring communication and coordination is awesome.

The people who are against instances have yet to present a valid reason why their so bad other than grandiose exaggerations. "Rail shooter?" Really? Whether its an open dungeon or an instanced one, it's still going to be a series of hallways and rooms where your goal is to get from Point A to the final battle at Point B. at least in an instance they can create an experience that reacts to a single group rather than crowded farming sessions.

[Sephrick]

WE want both!

So do people on the pro-instance side. But the discussion needs to be deeper than "just give us both."

MMOs are about discovering a world. But it is indeed a long-term experience and there can he only so much to explore. So it comes down to the question of what's worth repeating? To which the answer is contingent on what gives the best rewards?

So I suppose I should change my "All endgame should be instanced" to say "The best rewards should be from instances."

There's nothing wrong with creating interesting little places that are unique to the world's lore, but if we have to repeat an event for years to achieve something it shouldn't be further impeded by other players stepping on our toes.

The "more open world" side of the discussion seem to hold the belief that all instances will be a repeat of Darkhold too. Which with ideas like the Crystal Tower in the pipes, just isn't the case. But an instance raid still is exploration.

I guess what I don't understand about the people on the "less instance" side of things is this concept of exploration. Exploration in any game has such a limited shelf life. It's a once-and-done experience.

I personally loved the climb in Attowah Chasm in XI. The view from the top was awesome. But then I took my screenshot and never went back -- to the mountain, not the zone (obviously dragons gotta die, adventurers gotta lot Earth Crystals).

Unless they design the game to be a completely open and vast world there can't possibly be enough to keep people playing for years. Because the thing is, we've all played that game. It was called Final Fantasy XIV circa 2010. There's still plenty of open space to "explore," but what's the point?

In the end, MMOs aren't exploration games. They're objective-based gear grinds that reward us with periodic storytelling.

I do my exploring in the real world. When I sit down to play XIV I want to team up with some friends and actually play a video game. So for the "Go play Vindictus" crowd; no thanks. I'll go play XIV because they're making the game I want to play.

[Gramul]

Exploration in any game has such a limited shelf life. It's a once-and-done experience.

I agree with most of what you said, but this just doesn't mesh with me. Exploration, to me at least, should be a constant and continual experience. Enough content to keep you exploring long enough so you can feel some light nostalgia over places you haven't been to in a while. That's what I like about the Elder Scrolls games.

[Sephrick]

I agree with most of what you said, but this just doesn't mesh with me. Exploration, to me at least, should be a constant and continual experience. Enough content to keep you exploring long enough so you can feel some light nostalgia over places you haven't been to in a while. That's what I like about the Elder Scrolls games.

I guess that's what I'm not understanding. How is that exclusive to non-instance areas?

I get the impression that people want these vast empty space with little nooks and crannies to investigate for the sake of saying you went to see them this one time.

I'm not saying that an MMO shouldn't have an open living world. It definitely should. But at the end of the day it's still a game about strengthening your character and experiencing story.

That's why I'd prefer a smaller open world with more in it and top gear coming from instanced events. That way everything can happen on the player's schedule aside from inconsequential things like random events such as Garlean raids on an Aetheryte camp or a dragon flying by.

Personally, I just don't want to go back to the days of the best gear dropping from open world monsters. There's nothing fun about being up at 3a.m. For then tenth night in a row trying to convincer yourself that "If I stuck it out this long, I may as well wait one more window."

But perhaps that's where some miscommunication is coming in. What do people want in the open world that already isn't there or on the way?

If we're talking about something like having an open stronghold guarding the entrance to a raid, I can totally get behind that. But not an open stronhmghold leading to a claim fest.

[Jinko]

Suborn Ignorance is not an Excuse.

No but he is allowed his own vision for the game "he" is developing, if you don't like it leave and play something else.

Cutters' Cry is a great example of what can be done in an instance. Splitting up the team and requiring communication and coordination is awesome.

This.

I think people overestimate meeting people in an open world, most of the friends and LS's I have met have been for quests and dungeon content.

As someone pointed out in the other thread, he asked the question in one of the polls and the majority voted for instanced content, he got his answer.

[ThePatriarch]

I guess that's what I'm not understanding. How is that exclusive to non-instance areas?

I get the impression that people want these vast empty space with little nooks and crannies to investigate for the sake of saying you went to see them this one time.

I'm not saying that an MMO shouldn't have an open living world. It definitely should. But at the end of the day it's still a game about strengthening your character and experiencing story.

That's why I'd prefer a smaller open world with more in it and top gear coming from instanced events. That way everything can happen on the player's schedule aside from inconsequential things like random events such as Garlean raids on an Aetheryte camp or a dragon flying by.

Personally, I just don't want to go back to the days of the best gear dropping from open world monsters. There's nothing fun about being up at 3a.m. For then tenth night in a row trying to convincer yourself that "If I stuck it out this long, I may as well wait one more window."

But perhaps that's where some miscommunication is coming in. What do people want in the open world that already isn't there or on the way?

If we're talking about something like having an open stronghold guarding the entrance to a raid, I can totally get behind that. But not an open stronhmghold leading to a claim fest.

I couldn't disagree any harder.

If you make a game purely instanced, there wouldn't be a sense of exploration. Rather than choose where you would like to go, you could just pick what instanced event you would like to do.

Me on the other hand, I like my MMO to have places to go, beautiful sights to see. And whilst exploring I, often, like to see a nice dragon that happens to be up.

Oh you are bored, Maybe you wanna skill up your craft while camping this nm? 3 hours well spent! I miss those days

[Jinko]

Me on the other hand, I like my MMO to have places to go, beautiful sights to see. And whilst exploring I, often, like to see a nice dragon that happens to be up.

None of which we have at the moment, Mor Dhona is about as nice as it gets and that place is pretty barren.

[ThePatriarch]

None of which we have at the moment, Mor Dhona is about as nice as it gets and that place is pretty barren.

This is a good call sir.

I am not saying that we have these zones yet, but I would like to see Open World content around when these areas become more readily available.

Remember taking in Attowha Chasm for the first time, checking out how awesome it looked. Then bam, there is this dragon in front of you. Its those magical moments that instanced raids take away.

[Sephrick]

I couldn't disagree any harder.

If you make a game purely instanced, there wouldn't be a sense of exploration. Rather than choose where you would like to go, you could just pick what instanced event you would like to do.

Me on the other hand, I like my MMO to have places to go, beautiful sights to see. And whilst exploring I, often, like to see a nice dragon that happens to be up.

Oh you are bored, Maybe you wanna skill up your craft while camping this nm? 3 hours well spent! I miss those days

So what you're saying, in short, is that you want HNMs back? No thanks. Spawn camping is boring.

If XIV is going to be successful the key element needs to be accessibility. Open world 24-72 hour NMs just don't provide that. That may have been okay in 2002 but not 2012. And that has nothing to do with a "gimme nao" mentality. I don't expect a gumball to drop every time I press a button, but I do want to press that button on my own schedule.