What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Lucida3b]

To give my opinions on some things. I'm mostly fine with the 6.1 storyline I think. I do share people's concerns, though i cant help but derive some amusement for if the goal was to bury the ascians there not doing a good job of it since we are focusing on there mess ups.

But i dont think it's entirely mad science but more the easiest method or testing they have available to them (though i do find it odd/convenient that graha doesnt seem to offer much for how to travel to the other shards considering he did pull them there..) Plus its not like voidsent cant already be summoned.

But on another note, I hope they dont start to rewrite the echo or anything as anything vaguely attached to ancients will come off as "there rewriting it to make mommy look better"

And I feel people underestimate how easy it is to make a favorite character turn into a toxic dreg on the story, look at what happened to sylvanas

[Lauront]

Edit: I keep forgetting to mention if you haven't seen the new Lahabrea solo duty it's interesting. He basically effortlessly KOs the WoL, but then Hydaelyn revives you and gives you a power up to be able to defeat him. Obviously, I'm not keen on the Hydaelyn part, but I do like that they're consistent now with the WoL being easily defeated by the unsundered without significant assistance from outsiders.

Damn, that's a much better fight sequence; and he's still said to be worn down. I assume Hydaelyn's intervention and him not taking a rest to recover properly from that is why he's weaker in ARF. So technically, that'd make him the first and one of the only characters to fell the WoL. Had a more powerful Ascian than Nabriales pursued them when the Blessing was gone, when she wasn't carrying the "bright little spark", it might've ended rather differently (at this point, I wish it had... ) I'm curious as to whether they'll give him a fight in Pandaemonium - even if of the "oh no he's mind-controlled" variety - just to see him at his full strength.

Yep, assuming you're making the connection between twelve followers and "The Twelve", it's been speculation ever since that scene popped up in ShB. Yoshida said that their souls were entirely consumed by the creation of Hydaelyn, though, so if they are the gods then maybe they were created by her as some sort of weird "tribute".

Part of me wonders if they're spontaneously summoned primals. The setting has some manner of collective memory or knowledge that survives in the Aetherial Sea, which Primals like Ramuh seemingly are able to draw upon - and apparently, Sephirot; this knowledge survives in souls in the form of dreams etc (questions 14 and 19 here touch on it). The notion of a wise and learned body of powerful specialists overseeing the world's affairs may have survived in that sense, and we know from Susano that spontaneous summons are possible. It may be why they genuinely are not beast tribe type primals and do not see themselves as such, but aren't "gods" (or at least not gods which are something other than man's creations), so much as summons of a kind. We'll see.

[Skyborne]

Edit: I keep forgetting to mention if you haven't seen the new Lahabrea solo duty it's interesting. He basically effortlessly KOs the WoL, but then Hydaelyn revives you and gives you a power up to be able to defeat him. Obviously, I'm not keen on the Hydaelyn part, but I do like that they're consistent now with the WoL being easily defeated by the unsundered without significant assistance from outsiders.

Mankind must walk indeed. Or be carried in the arms of a winged goddess. At least he's less of a meme now.

Wouldn't the fact that we're currently sundered imply that Azem didn't actually join them? The rest of her followers were consumed by Hydaelyn. Also, there's already dialogue that implies Azem ghosted everyone. "I had hoped that the defector, at least, would side with us, but I regret to report our overtures have gone unanswered."

Also I might be behind the curve, but upon reviewing that clip, I cant help but notice there's 12 Ancients just standing there with her...

Those 12? Just well-wishers seeing off Venat as she alone sacrifices her flesh and soul to be the lone rebel of the evilbadboomer world order. Also, the Sundering was her stepping on Zodiark with a plushie squeak noise, then rainbows and Argos puppies flying out of the reality-cracks as the Ancients all suddenly see the light and agree with her philosophy and raise their arms to rejoice and cheer!

[Rulakir]

The response to this question in the LL was so ridiculous. If they have a plan for what Azem was canonically doing during the Final Days then just say "we can't speak about it, you'll find out later.". Saying "whatever you would be doing is what they would be doing" is like ????!!

I wonder about that too for a couple of reasons. First, because the story of the sundering in ShB is different than what happened in EW. Second, because the only reason not to say what Azem is doing is either 1) because people want to think their Azem was working with Venat or 2) Azem was working with Venat but the divisive reception of her character made them retract it.

I've said before it bothers me that Azem not working with the Convocation is indisputable. This is made abundantly clear by Azem having been branded a traitor and Emet having had to create a memory crystal for them in secret.

Not so with Venat as the most we're told is Azem wouldn't respond to the outreach of her followers, which some have argued doesn't necessarily equate to a rejection. Plus, given the way they wrote her as the former Azem and mentor, it becomes a lot more questionable why Azem wouldn't have been colluding with her in some way.

Wouldn't the fact that we're currently sundered imply that Azem didn't actually join them?

You would think so, but there are plenty of people who believe their Azem willfully agreed to be sundered so that their future reincarnations could save the world. The writers certainly tried their best to make Venat and the WoL BFFs. I hate everything about it, but it's been a common take on Reddit and unfortunately the evidence Azem was against or even ignorant to Venat's plan isn't as concrete as it is with the Convocation.

[Lauront]

Mankind must walk indeed. Or be carried in the arms of a winged goddess. At least he's less of a meme now.



Those 12? Just well-wishers seeing off Venat as she alone sacrifices her flesh and soul to be the lone rebel of the evilbadboomer world order. Also, the Sundering was her stepping on Zodiark with a plushie squeak noise, then rainbows and Argos puppies flying out of the reality-cracks as the Ancients all suddenly see the light and agree with her philosophy and raise their arms to rejoice and cheer!

I think I'm just going to headcanon that everything after that Lahabrea killshot is a rabid fever dream. The WoL is 14's Squall now.

[Caurcas]

Sounds like some copium.

[Lucida3b]

I do wonder at times if venat was a intentional attempt at emet but they missed what made emet so popular

[Caurcas]

And Venat kicked Emet's puppy as well!

[Vahlnir]

And Venat kicked Emet's puppy as well!

Clearly she was a Mentor. That makes it even worse.

But...yeah. I do understand the general dislike for Venat. Perhaps what separates me from those who dislike her is that I saw how things unfolded differently than some.

[Skyborne]

Clearly she was a Mentor. That makes it even worse.

But...yeah. I do understand the general dislike for Venat. Perhaps what separates me from those who dislike her is that I saw how things unfolded differently than some.

Yes, some have expressed feeling a huge disconnect/dissonance between their own views and the "correct" view being pushed by the writers and developers, to the point where it destroyed any faith in the storytelling. Not just the handling of that one character, but how other story elements were thrown under the bus. Much like how your own faith was blown up by the entire catman hair situation and the huge disconnect there. One difference is that criticizing the gameplay and other elements is a little more acceptable than the story, which is held aloft as the main advertising point and "strength" of the game and has a sort of sacred cow status.

Between this and the reaction to some other things, maybe I should play my own game of "who will the devs anger next?" Bets? It's just getting funnier and funnier at this point.