The State of Homogenization: A New (Healer) Player's Perspective

[CrimsonGunner]

No, I'm not. I'm telling the OP that, quite simply, their problems with this game seem - at least from the outset - to be the game itself.

It'd be like me telling From Software to change Elden Ring. My problems with that game are so systemic and intrinsic to what it is, that me complaining about it is pointless. The game is just not for me. So I don't give them that feedback or tell them to change it. I just don't play it. And I play other things.

This game is not homogenized. It is systemically stable. A lot of people mistake 'having similar basic tools' for homogenization, but it's not. White Mage and Astro play dramatically differently overall. Sage and Scholar even more differently than that. Even the most 'commonly complained about' cases of homogenization - Dark Knight and Warrior - feel significantly different in their theme, their style, and the focus. Sure, they have some basic rotational similarities and similar functioning tools... but that's how the devs manage to have 15+ classes in a game where the hardest content is groups of 8 without having certain classes be just systematically excluded from raiding entirely. They give them the basic functioning tools to work and then add flavour in terms of unique abilities, the animations, the story, and the nuance of their gameplay systems(job gauge, ogcds, unique cooldowns, etc.).

That isn't to say anything is perfect... there's definitely room for improvement. But... if your problem is the game itself, then the changes needed to make you happy would basically require reinventing the wheel. And a lot of people are MOSTLY (or at least largely) happy with the wheel.

you do realize u have 70% identical skills in every one of the healers? they each have almost identical spells and skills in their healing and dps spells.
that is not a base kit if every one of your spells is copy pasted in another with no variance across all jobs in said role. you can have the same identical hotbar for each healer and it will play the same. except maybe ast but they suffer from button bloat that SE decided to create for them cause reasons.

[Elesh]

you do realize u have 70% identical skills in every one of the healers? they each have almost identical spells and skills in their healing and dps spells.
that is not a base kit if every one of your spells is copy pasted in another with no variance across all jobs in said role. you can have the same identical hotbar for each healer and it will play the same. except maybe ast but they suffer from button bloat that SE decided to create for them cause reasons.

So let's compare WhM/Astro, which are the two who share the most in terms of role.
Cure 1, Cure 2, and Medica have identical counterparts. Glare and Dia have nearly identical abilities.

That's... it, actually(aside from role actions). Essential Dignity is fairly similar to Tetragrammaton, but not identical.Celestial Intersection is fairly similar to Divine Benison, but again not identical.

So no, it's not a copy paste.

There are abiltiies that serve the same role in different ways - ex. Earthly Star and Assize serve similar roles, so could be put on the same bar, but aren't identical. Medica 2 vs Aspected Helios, again. Similar, but not identical. But you have to be REALLY reductive to say 'these abilities are identical'.

Oh and raise. But... that's basically a role action.

Please provide me any abilities I didn't mention above that White Mage has that any other healer has word for word identical. I can't think of any.

[CrimsonGunner]

So let's compare WhM/Astro, which are the two who share the most in terms of role.
Cure 1, Cure 2, and Medica have identical counterparts. Glare and Dia have nearly identical abilities.

That's... it, actually(aside from role actions). Essential Dignity is fairly similar to Tetragrammaton, but not identical.Celestial Intersection is fairly similar to Divine Benison, but again not identical.

So no, it's not a copy paste.

There are abiltiies that serve the same role in different ways - ex. Earthly Star and Assize serve similar roles, so could be put on the same bar, but aren't identical. Medica 2 vs Aspected Helios, again. Similar, but not identical. But you have to be REALLY reductive to say 'these abilities are identical'.

Oh and raise. But... that's basically a role action.

Please provide me any abilities I didn't mention above that White Mage has that any other healer has word for word identical. I can't think of any.

regen and aspected benefic.
medica 2 and aspected helios.
glare and dia are identical to combust and malefic the only thing different is potencies.

[Elesh]

regen and aspected benefic.
medica 2 and aspected helios.

An upfront heal + heal over time is identical to JUST a heal over time?

I think you're reaching here, my friend.

Edit: And this actually points to my problem with the 'homogenization' argument. People who complain of homogenization tend to be VERY reductive. Which goes back to one of the first things I said in this thread:

If you are reductive enough, everything is similar. An orange is the same as a chocolate bar if all you care about is that they're both edible. A car and a skyscraper are identical if you just reduce them to 'metal frame with stuff inside'.


Edit: I had originally had a bit about Medica 2 in there, but I had forgotten that Helios is just much faster and cheaper, not instant. (Not going to erase my mistake, just correct it)

[CrimsonGunner]

So you're saying an instant heal and one with a cast time are identical?
An upfront heal + heal over time is identical to JUST a heal over time?

I think you're reaching here, my friend.

i think you are trying to ignore the similarities here my friend not me reaching.

also what cast time... both regen and aspected benefic are instant cast.

wow you really try to ignore the bluntant similarities, dont you?

[Elesh]

i think you are trying to ignore the similarities here my friend not me reaching.

also what cast time... both regen and aspected benefic are instant cast

The cast time was in reference to Aspected Helios, which I'd forgotten is simply significantly faster and not instant. A factual error that I later remembered was incorrect so edited.

But no. there are similarities. But... similar is not identical. And a regen healer having a basic building block of:
AoE Heal
AoE Regen
Single Heal
Big Heal
Nuke
DoT

Doesn't seem like an unreasonable level of similarity when you add on all the other stuff that ISN'T identical.

But... saying '70% of their spells are identical' when it's really just... 7 out of about ~24 class specific skills... is just factually wrong. And needlessly reductive.

[CrimsonGunner]

The cast time was in reference to Aspected Helios, which I'd forgotten is simply significantly faster and not instant. A factual error that I later remembered was incorrect so edited.

But no. there are similarities. But... similar is not identical. And a regen healer having a basic building block of:
AoE Heal
AoE Regen
Single Heal
Big Heal
Nuke
DoT

Doesn't seem like an unreasonable level of similarity when you add on all the other stuff that ISN'T identical.

But... saying '70% of their spells are identical' when it's really just... 7 out of about ~24 class specific skills... is just factually wrong. And needlessly reductive.

lightning speed and presence of mind.
temperence and neutral sect.
exaltation and aquaveil.

you can play semantics all you want but when skills are identical almost to a T both play,use and have identical effects with only 1 small thing added to one job to make it different sorry that is not similar that is identical.

[Faafetai]

The cast time was in reference to Aspected Helios, which I'd forgotten is simply significantly faster and not instant. A factual error that I later remembered was incorrect so edited.

But no. there are similarities. But... similar is not identical. And a regen healer having a basic building block of:
AoE Heal
AoE Regen
Single Heal
Big Heal
Nuke
DoT

Doesn't seem like an unreasonable level of similarity when you add on all the other stuff that ISN'T identical.

But... saying '70% of their spells are identical' when it's really just... 7 out of about ~24 class specific skills... is just factually wrong. And needlessly reductive.

They are not the same thing? You are correct in some respects but whm has a unfair disadvantage for regen cure and cure 2. There are differences sure but they are in essence exactly the same thing serving the same exact function similar to Aetherflow on scholar and Addersgall for Sage you can even throw Lillies from whm except the unfairness of it being on the global.

[MiaShino]

regen and aspected benefic.
medica 2 and aspected helios.
glare and dia are identical to combust and malefic the only thing different is potencies.

Sage gets Lustrate and Indom that are not deeps loss too. Exact same potencies and use case for these skills between Sage and Scholar.

An upfront heal + heal over time is identical to JUST a heal over time?

Nope! One is just better in every way which poses whooole different problem..

[Silver-Strider]

So let's compare WhM/Astro, which are the two who share the most in terms of role.
Cure 1, Cure 2, and Medica have identical counterparts. Glare and Dia have nearly identical abilities.

That's... it, actually(aside from role actions). Essential Dignity is fairly similar to Tetragrammaton, but not identical.Celestial Intersection is fairly similar to Divine Benison, but again not identical.

So no, it's not a copy paste.

There are abiltiies that serve the same role in different ways - ex. Earthly Star and Assize serve similar roles, so could be put on the same bar, but aren't identical. Medica 2 vs Aspected Helios, again. Similar, but not identical. But you have to be REALLY reductive to say 'these abilities are identical'.

Oh and raise. But... that's basically a role action.

Please provide me any abilities I didn't mention above that White Mage has that any other healer has word for word identical. I can't think of any.

Talk about splitting hairs. The differences between WHM and AST are superficial at best and it's clear that you're just arguing for argument's sake.