If you continue to dumb down the game, you will lose half your player base

[Caurcas]

You have to have engaging content if your job design is simple, or you have to have engaging job design if your content is simple. If both are simple you have nothing to keep players around long term.

[Larirawiel]

Yoshi P said in a video that FFXIV wouldn't exist were it not for WoW. The game was a major inspirational source for this game. My question really is: Is the dev team willing to learn from the mistakes Blizzard made?

Blizzard literally went on a raging simplification spree. Notably pruning and removing tons of abilities from each class and specializations in the name of "accessibility". Shortly after the game went downhill big time. Skill expression is today completely gone in WoW. Every class plays braindead 1-2-3 button smashing that literally dulls your brain as you play.

I agree, that dumping down the gameplay will not be good for the game in the long term.

But seriously, Blizzards problems are not made by dumping down the gameplay. They have way too many layers of different systems. Too much grind, too much FOMO mechanics, they reset the game with every content patch completely etc.



Cheers

[Gember]

This is my guess.. but maybe the job simplification is to set it up for latter content that will need to introduce new skills. I feel that way with Reaper and Summoner at the moment. I would say Sage; but most healers except for Astro has been simplified already. Though I do understand the frustration that level 90 should be encouraging players to enhance their skills. Its literally 10 levels away from the overall level cap of any major final fantasy game. I do wonder if they'll make a level squish so level 100 will still be iconic. I really can't say for sure.

I main WHM, so I am use to a more direct/simple play style. But I like that its direct; but I wouldn't mind the job having more to it while still being direct. Its nice to take the job to the next level and get super good at it.

[IdowhatIwant]

This is my guess.. but maybe the job simplification is to set it up for latter content that will need to introduce new skills.

I would like to think that, but some of these classes got wrecked before they even decided 6.0 was the last expansion for the zodiark / hydalyn plot.

They even say the MCH class is complete, there is not anything further to expand up in its game play. And it's game play is not great.

[Larirawiel]

having to press 500 different buttons during combat does not make the game fun

It depends.

If you have 10 buttons and they do different things then it can be fun. But if you have 10 buttons and they do almost the same thing then the game will become boring very quickly. Unfortunately, for FF14 the latter applies. And this is the reason why many jobs feel so bloated. WoW Classic and Tbc did a way better job here, IMHO. You had many buttons but only few feeled similar to each other.



Cheers

[Rhysati]

WoW's problems were content and a myriad of other things, not "simplification." Ya'll also severely overestimate the outlook of the game based on the forums which is a minority of the minority of the playerbase.

For me, the exact reason I quit playing WoW is the simplification and homogenization of classes. I play on private servers now in old expansions where my class actually has an identity and things they bring to the table that other classes do not. I also play other older MMORPGs like City of Heroes and Everquest p1999 for that exact same reason.

If I wasn't an active roleplayer here I wouldn't play FFXIV any longer for the exact same reason. Every class feels the same so it really doesn't matter which one I play anymore.

[Poporito_Popoto]

Good. Maybe people will stop complaining about not being able to get a house then.

[Sqwall]

For me, the exact reason I quit playing WoW is the simplification and homogenization of classes. I play on private servers now in old expansions where my class actually has an identity and things they bring to the table that other classes do not. I also play other older MMORPGs like City of Heroes and Everquest p1999 for that exact same reason.

If I wasn't an active roleplayer here I wouldn't play FFXIV any longer for the exact same reason. Every class feels the same so it really doesn't matter which one I play anymore.

So you play at a time when it was.....simpler? I'm confused as to why you go back to old expansions where you didn't have as much skills. Don't get me wrong...I enjoy the classics just as much as anyone else, but the simple fact that the developers of FFXIV understand that the game feels a tad....complicated when it comes to controller players places the blame on those people. I shouldn't have to start using a M/K because the game demands it, which it doesn't, the meta community does i.e. ultimate, savage. The fact that I can play this game from my couch and still clear savage content is a testament to design of this game. Again don't get me wrong there are some things that I detest to savage, enrage comes to mind and I think enrage timers are incredibly lackluster to mechanics, but hey that's me.

Reducing button bloat IS NOT a red flag of simplifying a game. It's removing frustration of some jobs that just really have WAY to many buttons. I actually have to remove ALL my AOE buttons when I raid just so I can have everything on my main X-hotbar with out using to much switching or fumbling around.

Those that play on M/K as an Astro should BOW to those Astro's that play on controller. ESPECISALLY in P4S during Pinax....

The current method of adding buttons to jobs should be forgotten and replaced with TRAITS upgrading skills. It's simpler and you can still create new and interesting dynamics. Dragoon comes to mind with all the changes made for 60-80 you get maybe 1 actual ability/skill. Everything else is traited...which still changes how the job plays. Atonement on Paladin also comes to mind....trait that crap and change Royal Authority to atonement on completion. Currently Atonement is on the GCD anyway so it only makes sense.

[IdowhatIwant]

So you play at a time when it was.....simpler? I'm confused as to why you go back to old expansions where you didn't have as much skills. Don't get me wrong...I enjoy the classics just as much as anyone else, but the simple fact that the developers of FFXIV understand that the game feels a tad....complicated when it comes to controller players places the blame on those people. I shouldn't have to start using a M/K because the game demands it, which it doesn't, the meta community does i.e. ultimate, savage. The fact that I can play this game from my couch and still clear savage content is a testament to design of this game. Again don't get me wrong there are some things that I detest to savage, enrage comes to mind and I think enrage timers are incredibly lackluster to mechanics, but hey that's me.

Reducing button bloat IS NOT a red flag of simplifying a game. It's removing frustration of some jobs that just really have WAY to many buttons. I actually have to remove ALL my AOE buttons when I raid just so I can have everything on my main X-hotbar with out using to much switching or fumbling around.

Those that play on M/K as an Astro should BOW to those Astro's that play on controller. ESPECISALLY in P4S during Pinax....

The current method of adding buttons to jobs should be forgotten and replaced with TRAITS upgrading skills. It's simpler and you can still create new and interesting dynamics. Dragoon comes to mind with all the changes made for 60-80 you get maybe 1 actual ability/skill. Everything else is traited...which still changes how the job plays. Atonement on Paladin also comes to mind....trait that crap and change Royal Authority to atonement on completion. Currently Atonement is on the GCD anyway so it only makes sense.

It's not really the button bloat that people are mad about them addressing. It is the buttons that are being removed. Again I am not understanding where players are not understanding that part. No one wants more buttons, but no one wants iconic skills removed either.

Man I can't wait for PS support to end again.

[Caurcas]

But I've savaged raided just fine with a controller back when we had "bloat".