Off Topic Discussion Megathread

[Kolsykol]

I don't really see the issue. Not for me (I think it looks dumb), but they obviously know their target audience. Unlike a publisher like Amazon who is seemingly constantly trying to enforce that "they know best" and in turn killing their games.

Tbh even in Lost Ark, I'd say that I kinda view the issue there a bit similarly because of the pricing ( and also stats on skins ).
It's not precisely gacha but they do it still in a fairly predatory way because of the skins being timed.
They prey on the fear of losing out, they release skins for a specific time and then remove them forever from the store, to make people rush to the store and buy it before it's gone.

I think it's kinda the same in PSO2 with the gacha, sliders shouldn't be tied to that and in Lost Ark skins shouldn't have a time limit.

[SturmChurro]

Tbh even in Lost Ark, I'd say that I kinda view the issue there a bit similarly because of the pricing ( and also stats on skins ).
It's not precisely gacha but they do it still in a fairly predatory way because of the skins being timed.
They prey on the fear of losing out, they release skins for a specific time and then remove them forever from the store, to make people rush to the store and buy it before it's gone.

I think it's kinda the same in PSO2 with the gacha, sliders shouldn't be tied to that and in Lost Ark skins shouldn't have a time limit.

So far, timed skins aren't actually that bad in the west, with Amazon as the publisher. The problem is they aren't releasing anything, and they decided to have Omen as the only skin for 35 days! When there are tons and tons and tons of other skins available, which doesn't dispel fears that they will censor the most popular skins from Korea.

Games like ESO do timed skins and I think it's a lot more predatory than how Lost Ark is doing it. Even in Korea you can buy skins with Gold. So, even a determined free to play should be able to get most skins they want (at the cost of progression). ESO even has timed loot boxes (At least last I played). It's horrific. I think PSO2 does timed loot boxes too. The funny thing is, a lot of players actually like timed or limited skins or items, so they can be one of the "few" who has it.

I do wonder.. if Amazon will change up the legendary skin acquisition from how it is in Korea, for Lost Ark. I think that's the one thing that's aquired through actual loot boxes. With all the 'pay to win' bad press, they might have to make some changes.

It's like I've always said, I think mogstation has one of the best monetization methods for an mmorpg currently. I just wish they would update it more often with quality stuff like outfits. I want outfits.

[Padudu]

I don't really see the issue. Not for me (I think it looks dumb), but they obviously know their target audience. Unlike a publisher like Amazon who is seemingly constantly trying to enforce that "they know best" and in turn killing their games.

PSO2 has been long dead lol, but the problem for me is the gacha. The massive amount of money you have to buy to even get the slider is.. well, a lot to put it simply. The only audience left (the people who decided to stay) are pretty much the whales, so yeah, I guess they know their audience. But they forgot to add in actual content *cries*

snip

that will happen no matter what tbf, we have "learned" as a society that breasts = sexual content. I mean hey there was a reason why for a while there was the huge breastfeeding in public debate.. which is the most stupid thing ever. We just turned out to be prudish in our society :P

I agree though lol, I don't think it's really out of her character, tbh there's a lot, a LOT worse you can do there in terms of sexualization. And like you said, guys nearly don't get that much flack, and likely never will tbh. We just don't view it as more sexual tbh, I guess the most would be the pose. It's just how we're wired honestly.

Ok, the hands and feet make sense, but that guy is still built!! I mean those thighs alone could KILL, man.

[Theodric]

I imagine breasts are considered sexual because the majority of people admiring them do so for sexual reasons. I rather suspect the people going 'MOMMY MILKERS' every time a busty female character shows up on screen are not doing so because they're tastefully admiring the female form. I also think the alleged double standard of men exposing their bare chests is balanced out by pretty much every game - even many of those rated for adults - refusing to depict authentic male anatomy. Just look at how few games have an option for a tasteful bulge or body hair but will spend a lot of time making sure that the female models look near perfect and appealing from every possible angle.

[Kolsykol]

Snip

I think this is moreso womens bodies than breasts specifically, tbh I see people spam '' booba '' in Twitch chat regardless of chest size they just do it when a woman is on screen altogether whether real or fictional.
I think it's cringe and really annoying, but that's Twitch chat and Redditors in a nutshell.
If you looked at their chat logs it'd probably not be the only cringe thing they spam.

I also think that a bulge and breasts are totally different things that can't be compared, not only because one is actual genitals and breasts are a secondary sex characteristic.
Which also includes male chests and abs for instance ( and it's breasts specifically too, not only large breasts ).
But also because just from a visual pov you're not going to see how hung a guy is on the outside while breasts are going to be more noticeable.

I actually do agree with body hair but in the reverse, men in media are usually portrayed as totally hairless both to emphasize their perfect physiques but also because it's typically considered to be more appealing.
They're shaved in media to emphasize what is at least assumed to be the most conventional secondary sex characteristics for men and bring it out.

I think that this is more a matter of perception and societal norms, you don't see a lot of people openly admire mens bodies in sexual ways because homophobia isn't exactly a solved issue but also it has only very recently improved.
And men are generally more insecure about that than women are, men don't want to be '' perceived as gay '' and that affects how they'll talk about it and media they consume.
A woman drawing sexy fanart or liking it on Twitter of female characters is going to be viewed differently than a guy doing it of male characters.
And there's also more societal pressure on women to be modest, so women aren't going to be as vocal about it as men are who will just openly screech about it and spam '' booba ''.

And I also think that there is a problem that because the people you refered to exist some people think that therefore the only reason for large breasts to exist in media is always for that reason.
It's the same with revealing outfits too, it always gets reduced down and assumed that you can't just like it but there must be some perverted reason behind it.
And it's the same with art too, a lot of women and gay men will draw art like that even tho they have no sexual interest in women.
But people will still assume the most stereotypical thing about them, and when pointed out to them that they're wrong they'll repeat the same mistake over and over again.

[SturmChurro]

I get huge into true crime content and stuff like that when I am grinding in mmorpgs. Watching/listening to hours of police interrogations.

[Caurcas]

I imagine breasts are considered sexual because the majority of people admiring them do so for sexual reasons. I rather suspect the people going 'MOMMY MILKERS' every time a busty female character shows up on screen are not doing so because they're tastefully admiring the female form. I also think the alleged double standard of men exposing their bare chests is balanced out by pretty much every game - even many of those rated for adults - refusing to depict authentic male anatomy. Just look at how few games have an option for a tasteful bulge or body hair but will spend a lot of time making sure that the female models look near perfect and appealing from every possible angle.

Well, there are going to be more of the latter rather than the former consuming such media. Best to look for speciality/niche content for the former.

[SturmChurro]

...

Yeah, just having a woman on screen is more than enough. Heck, they don't even have to be on screen, if a girl talks, you'll see some massive waves of cringe, from what I've seen from Twitch. I do think there is a double standard with female and male characters in games. Companies are actively making female characters hideous, ugly, covered up. While male characters will most likely look pretty normal at the very least. When it comes to revealing pieces, you do see male characters literally looking like Adonis. We are talking Six-pack abs, good looking, etc.. and you don't really see too many (if any) calls to censor any of this.

[Kolsykol]

In the end of the day the main overall point is that I think it's really tiresome and immature to see a woman who's well-endowed and shows cleavage to have very extreme reactions against it and act like she's naked or like it's some great sinful travesty.
When they can't even exist without some kind of controversy I think there is an actual problem and maybe people need to rethink and grow up a little.
I also don't believe that breasts should be like this one sole body part on the human body ( execpt for genitals ) that are just totally '' verboten '' lol.
It's also the same for spamming '' booba '' and acting like a pervert about it, I view them as two extremes on opposite ends.

Sexuality is for the most part in the eyes of the beholder, one thing might be more commonly considered appealing to people but I don't believe that it's as overwhelming as many think Padudu is ofc right that it's taught.
Even today in different countries it's different.
I mean generally speaking we consider people in their 20-30's to be at their '' peak '' so to speak, and yet '' mature '' is one of the most popular porn searches based on what I can see with a quick google ( above large breasts btw ).
While I do think that people being horny so to speak about large breasts openly might be more loud, I also don't think that it tells the whole truth.

I mean uh, I see quite a lot of people who fetishize modesty too...
I actually think that's one of the reasons why some are so aggressively against women showing skin too, some will even outright come out and say it too that they think it's sexier when women are covered.
And yet in the same breath they'll complain that a woman showing skin is too sexualized and not see the irony.

I guess the most would be the pose.

Yeah the pose emphasizes it, the same way a pose might emphasize a man a different way which wouldn't be if he had a different build.
Ultimately I think that yes it's sexy, but it often seems like what people get upset about isn't the sexiness itself but the breasts.
Like as if sexy is alright and not a bad thing, but when you add breasts into it then suddenly some people get genuinely furious about it.
It's just weird to me.

But yeah I don't think any of us disagree overall not to some great degree at least.



Edit: On another note, I made a Malkavian in Vampire Bloodlines.
I never played one and I heard their dialogue was pretty funny.

I am already spooked about the hotel part and I haven't even gotten there yet lol.
It's pretty cool tho how different Malkavian and Nosferatu are and how much effort the devs put into making them so different.
If you play Nosferatu you can't even be in public because it's so obvious you're a Vampire it totally changes how you must approach the game.

[Kolsykol]

I forgot how much horror there was in Bloodlines, it's not rly scary mainly because of how outdated the graphics are but the overall theme and presentation is.
The first side-quest I did lead me down the basement of a crazy prosthetics doctor with arms and legs hanging all over the place and creepy medical pictures.
Then I find two people locked up one is missing both arms and legs and the doctor comes running at me from behind as a boss fight wielding a chopped off arm lol.

Then there's stuff like the hotel and some body horror, the Grout mansion with the mannequins that move on their own when you're not looking and phone calls too.
And the Vampire at the creepy abandoned hospital who eats flesh that's probably the creepiest one imo.

I forgot how funny the writing is too everyone has so much character the dialogue is well-written.
I really wish more games would have seduction as part of the persuasion too.
Often times in games I feel like persuasion just boils down to appeals to basic logic, threats or lying/ tricking someone and the NPC being an idiot.
It has a tendency to feel like your character doesn't have a lot of room for actual roleplay outside of a very limited type of character.
The options in Bloodlines just feel more vivid.

It was one thing that disappointed me too with V in Cyberpunk 2077, ultimately V is an established character with a decided identity and personality.
I never felt like V was my character and the dialogue very rarely felt like it had actual options for that it was mostly just '' progress story or ask questions ''.
I really wish V had been more of a blank slate it's part of why I am not a fan of voiced protagonists in RPG's either.
It never rly feels like I am playing my character then the voice normally doesn't match at all and it tends to end in less dialogue options.