What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[PawPaw]

I've seen lots of confusion about whether they were or weren't and suggestions that this line might not even be true, given what we are told in EW. I have no idea. It's not too surprising when they can't keep the lore straight from one EP to the very next one.

Speaking of lore that is confusing, what's the deal with the Echo these days? I remember being told a while ago that the Echo was what was protecting me from being tempered but in EW they say it's a sparkly "blessing" that's doing it, which doesn't really add up as neither Fordola nor Zenos had said blessing and Primals didn't faze them at all.

[Ixon]

I've seen lots of confusion about whether they were or weren't and suggestions that this line might not even be true, given what we are told in EW. I have no idea. It's not too surprising when they can't keep the lore straight from one EP to the very next one.

Speaking of lore that is confusing, what's the deal with the Echo these days? I remember being told a while ago that the Echo was what was protecting me from being tempered but in EW they say it's a sparkly "blessing" that's doing it, which doesn't really add up as neither Fordola nor Zenos had said blessing and Primals didn't faze them at all.

I "thought" that Hydalyn's Blessing and Venat's Travelers Ward were one and the same? As for the Echo, I can't recall the conversation exactly, but when we were with Venat on the island using the Echo to look into Hermes and Metions past interaction, I was under the impression it was more of a skill that the Ancients could harness by looking through the soul of an individual recalling a memory, or by examination of the Aesthetical ripples in an area, and us and others were decedents of that ability. Or something like that at least. Fordola's and Zenos's were artificial, though with Zenos being a bloodline descendant of Emet-Selch, I so wonder if any Ancient power found it way to him.

[PawPaw]

I "thought" that Hydalyn's Blessing and Venat's Travelers Ward were one and the same? As for the Echo, I can't recall the conversation exactly, but when we were with Venat on the island using the Echo to look into Hermes and Metions past interaction, I was under the impression it was more of a skill that the Ancients could harness by looking through the soul of an individual recalling a memory, or by examination of the Aesthetical ripples in an area, and us and others were decedents of that ability. Or something like that at least. Fordola's and Zenos's were artificial, though with Zenos being a bloodline descendant of Emet-Selch, I so wonder if any Ancient power found it way to him.

The blessing/ward is the same, but it should not be the thing that is protecting us from tempering, as far as I am aware. This is the wiki definition of the Echo and what I understand it to have been until EW based on what I was told in game till that point.

"Those who have been "gifted", as the members of the Path of the Twelve call it, can resonate with other people's souls—and see their past, albeit not able to interfere or change it—as well as being able to speak every language in the world. The Echo protects its user from being tempered by primals, and advanced users can transcend their mortal forms."

We still don't even know what the full powers of the Echo can do, we only have a fraction of them compared to the Ancients. And yes, Venat shows us how they used their power (whatever it was called) to pull up memories at will, but the Echo does much more than that and I'm just curious why it suddenly is no longer the thing protecting us from primals when it has been all this time. Again, Fordola and Zenos both have fake Echos, which protect them from primal tempering despite NOT having the blessing/ward, whatever. So I can only assume that this protection in fact comes from the Echo, and not this ward and I have no idea why they tried to make it seem as though it did not.

[Lauront]

The blessing/ward is the same, but it should not be the thing that is protecting us from tempering, as far as I am aware. This is the wiki definition of the Echo and what I understand it to have been until EW based on what I was told in game till that point.

"Those who have been "gifted", as the members of the Path of the Twelve call it, can resonate with other people's souls—and see their past, albeit not able to interfere or change it—as well as being able to speak every language in the world. The Echo protects its user from being tempered by primals, and advanced users can transcend their mortal forms."

We still don't even know what the full powers of the Echo can do, we only have a fraction of them compared to the Ancients. And yes, Venat shows us how they used their power (whatever it was called) to pull up memories at will, but the Echo does much more than that and I'm just curious why it suddenly is no longer the thing protecting us from primals when it has been all this time. Again, Fordola and Zenos both have fake Echos, which protect them from primal tempering despite NOT having the blessing/ward, whatever. So I can only assume that this protection in fact comes from the Echo, and not this ward and I have no idea why they tried to make it seem as though it did not.

She mentioned it protected from aetheric corruption, but I suspect as with many things, it was synergistic in nature. Whatever it was, it taxed her to preserve it as a primal, and she could pump her power into it, so while it may have been in its basic form a "traveller's ward", it had all the trappings of a primal blessing as well. I think they were just using it as a hook so that she could sense that the WoL was a future traveller and were out of ideas of what else to use.

Arenvald also has the Echo, and it protects him as well, such that he can join in on primal fighting, including against Lakshmi. So it's definitely a trait of the Echo.

[PawPaw]

She mentioned it protected from aetheric corruption, but I suspect as with many things, it was synergistic in nature. Whatever it was, it taxed her to preserve it as a primal, and she could pump her power into it, so while it may have been in its basic form a "traveller's ward", it had all the trappings of a primal blessing as well. I think they were just using it as a hook so that she could sense that the WoL was a future traveller and were out of ideas of what else to use.

Arenvald also has the Echo, and it protects him as well, such that he can join in on primal fighting, including against Lakshmi.

Yeah it's just the phrasing and inconsistency that got my hackles up. This second option is straight up disregarding everything we know about the Echo and suggesting that it's not what keeps us safe at all, as she agrees that if primals enthrall by corrupting aether, then it must be her ward that's protecting us. Suddenly it's all thanks to Venat? Pfft.

[Brinne]

I think, if I'm remembering right, the revelation in 5.2 was that Hydaelyn's auto-message was meant to hit anyone who awakened to the Echo, immediately, to her voice and her Blessing - to the point that the in-universe lorebooks attributed the Echo itself as "a gift from Hydaelyn." So, uh, her intent was probably to confuse the issue, honestly, what with how determined she was to completely erase the Ancients from history and keep them erased.

[PawPaw]

I think, if I'm remembering right, the revelation in 5.2 was that Hydaelyn's auto-message was meant to hit anyone who awakened to the Echo, immediately, to her voice and her Blessing - to the point that the in-universe lorebooks attributed the Echo itself as "a gift from Hydaelyn." So, uh, her intent was probably to confuse the issue, honestly, what with how determined she was to completely erase the Ancients from history and keep them erased.

I remember that part of 5.2, but it also says in the wiki that many people mistakenly associate the Echo as being bestowed by her when, in "fact", all her shouting has done is awakened the fragment of the ancient within you which in turn unlocks the latent Echo, their power. I put fact in quotes because I honestly have no idea anymore.