What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Rulakir]

How to tell someone replied without reading any of the thread. :P

I've largely loved XIV's story, but I really don't want it to continue going in a direction where the impressions we're getting from it are completely at odds with what the writers intended, especially when none of the prior expansions had such an issue.

Same. I continually quote Lurina saying it felt like the writers and I weren't ethically on the same page because it's so apt and also deeply concerning going into what Yoshi-P has said will be a conflict in values. What values is my WoL going to be championing this time? What values are the antagonists going to hold that we're supposed to demonize and confuse the writers if we don't?

I've also heard no other expansion was as divisive as EW, but as someone who just started playing last year I wouldn't know.

[CrownySuccubus]

How to tell someone replied without reading any of the thread. :P



Same. I continually quote Lurina saying it felt like the writers and I weren't ethically on the same page because it's so apt and also deeply concerning going into what Yoshi-P has said will be a conflict in values. What values is my WoL going to be championing this time? What values are the antagonists going to hold that we're supposed to demonize and confuse the writers if we don't?

I've also heard no other expansion was as divisive as EW, but as someone who just started playing last year I wouldn't know.

Hm. I started during Stormblood, which I think mostly got negative reception for its story. Heavensward and Shadowbringers were almost universally beloved.

I think Endwalker is suffering from "Fridge Logic"; before I finished it, I heard almost nothing but clamorous praise for it, but the closer to the end I got and the more spoiler-filled discussions I was able to participate in, the more people I found critical of it. That leads me to believe that the earliest players were the ones who were most eager to love it and least receptive to criticism, while the more measured players are the ones that started beating it in the following months. Also, some of those early players who are now coming down from the high of the "honeymoon phase" are either just starting to see criticisms they agree with or are rethinking some of their earlier takes.

As I've said a few times, I was absolutely loving the story right up until Elpis. That was the exact moment that the story started veering into "What the hell are you guys talking about?" territory.

All this being said, the people who dislike Endwalker's story or the expansion as a whole are still a minority. A growing minority, but still a minority.

[Brinne]

Hm. I started during Stormblood, which I think mostly got negative reception for its story. Heavensward and Shadowbringers were almost universally beloved.

Personally speaking, as always, I've been playing since ARR - and though I had my own list of criticisms about Stormblood, they were relatively "light" and mostly about craft and execution while recognizing there was mostly good intent, at least, behind the ideas. I'm projecting, maybe, but that was also generally the vibe I saw around most Stormblood criticism in general. Things like: Lyse as a character was developed clumsily, especially given all the focus on her - the pacing and focus were misaligned, too much repetition in the zone scenarios, so on and so forth. As far as "deeper" stuff, my main impression was, "this seems to be a well-intended expansion about colonialism written by people who don't actually know or have much experience with colonialism." Clearly trying to be thoughtful, but inevitably reductive and awkward regardless. Nothing really brain-breaking, at least.

Meanwhile, Endwalker criticism has a fundamentally different tenor that's more about "um, did the game I've loved for ten years suddenly swerve into basically doing a full-throated genocide apologism?"

[Carin-Eri]

Hm. I started during Stormblood, which I think mostly got negative reception for its story. Heavensward and Shadowbringers were almost universally beloved.

I think Endwalker is suffering from "Fridge Logic"; before I finished it, I heard almost nothing but clamorous praise for it, but the closer to the end I got and the more spoiler-filled discussions I was able to participate in, the more people I found critical of it. That leads me to believe that the earliest players were the ones who were most eager to love it and least receptive to criticism, while the more measured players are the ones that started beating it in the following months. Also, some of those early players who are now coming down from the high of the "honeymoon phase" are either just starting to see criticisms they agree with or are rethinking some of their earlier takes.

As I've said a few times, I was absolutely loving the story right up until Elpis. That was the exact moment that the story started veering into "What the hell are you guys talking about?" territory.

All this being said, the people who dislike Endwalker's story or the expansion as a whole are still a minority. A growing minority, but still a minority.

That's an interesting point actually. I mean, whilst I only very recently finished Endwalker it did (for me at least) present a few big "WOW!" moments - the Ragnarok launch for example, the surprise reveal of Zenos coming to our 'rescue'. And I have to confess, the cutscenes leading into the fight with Zenos, with 'Footfalls' playing in the background... I didn't know whether to laugh or cry - the whole thing was a joy to behold.

By the same token, so far as ShB is concerned, the entire sequence with Hades is something I've revisited a few times. I can say with certainty, having seen some reaction videos on Youtube, that I wasn't the only one almost in tears from the part where Ardbert offers the ailing WoL his axe, leading up to Emet-Selch's "Remember that we lived".
And, obviously, HW gave us the clearly much-beloved (and justifiably so) 'Final Steps of Faith'
Heck, even ARR gave us the wrongly accused Scion's dropping out one-by-one to allow the (barely then known as the) Warrior of Light the opportunity to escape.

But SB? I don't really recall any standout moments. I guess the liberation of Ala Mihgo was pretty good but I don't recall anything that gave me that "wow" factor that draws me to revisit cutscenes.

[CrownySuccubus]

That's an interesting point actually. I mean, whilst I only very recently finished Endwalker it did (for me at least) present a few big "WOW!" moments - the Ragnarok launch for example, the surprise reveal of Zenos coming to our 'rescue'. And I have to confess, the cutscenes leading into the fight with Zenos, with 'Footfalls' playing in the background... I didn't know whether to laugh or cry - the whole thing was a joy to behold.

By the same token, so far as ShB is concerned, the entire sequence with Hades is something I've revisited a few times. I can say with certainty, having seen some reaction videos on Youtube, that I wasn't the only one almost in tears from the part where Ardbert offers the ailing WoL his axe, leading up to Emet-Selch's "Remember that we lived".
And, obviously, HW gave us the clearly much-beloved (and justifiably so) 'Final Steps of Faith'
Heck, even ARR gave us the wrongly accused Scion's dropping out one-by-one to allow the (barely then known as the) Warrior of Light the opportunity to escape.

But SB? I don't really recall any standout moments. I guess the liberation of Ala Mihgo was pretty good but I don't recall anything that gave me that "wow" factor that draws me to revisit cutscenes.

Yeah, most of the "memorable" stuff from SB seems to only be things which are meme-worthy, such as Scholars catching Susanoo's huge sword with their books, Lakshmi's "bosom", and Gosetsu having a whole death monologue and conversation while he struggles to hold up a collapsing building. Even when I was going through every dungeon in the game while leveling all my classes to 80, I could recount exactly why the WOL had to fight in places like the Aery, the AC Research Center, Holminster Switch, Qitana Ravel and Mt. Gulg...but I was scratching my head trying to remember what the purpose of fighting in the Sirensong Sea or Castrum Abania was.

To its credit, I don't think Endwalker is going to have that problem. For all the faults I have with its story, every dungeon was pretty memorable. The Tower of Zot is probably the least of them, but I don't think it'll be possible to forget why you're there.