What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Kozh]

Am I the only anti-Venat person who likes G'raha? D:

G'raha is fine as a character itself, if not a little bit too cringy (I like the Exarch tho). My reasons for disliking him are more due to meta reasons. Mainly because:

1) I personally have bad reactions to people/character like him or Zenos who were obsessed with us, due to unpleasant rl experience

2) it's quite clear by now that he's the writer's pet, because they know how much the fanbase love him. And because of that they tried to shove him nearly everywhere. I don't want them to sacrifice another character's time screen or spotlight just because they got g'raha to fawn over us and stroke the player's ego.

3) out of everyone, he's the only character who the WoL seems to have most reaction too. I'm okay with WoL liking him, but at least make it the same quantity(?) as how the WoL react to the other scions who definitely love the WoL as much as g'raha love us. It's kinda a consent issue for me, because I definitely doesn't feel that way towards him.

4) this is a somewhat baseless irrational thing, but I truly despise how ShB handled another character. And seeing how they treat g'raha with 180 instead just fills me more with contempt. This is why I've come to distrust and be antagonistic towards the writer. I don't think that feeling will go away completely.

Iirc,you mentioned before how you dislike you don't get other options than to be nice and friendly towards minfilia and venat. This is basically the same as to how I feel towards g'raha.

(although someone mentioned he liked us during the CT raids when he was unaware of our exploits)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he already know who's us ever since the start? That's why he hide the sand(?) thing?

[Iscah]

Anyway are we seriously pretending that all of Europe is the same across the board here? Last time I checked there were some marked differences between say the UK and Italy, both locations being exponentially more interesting and appealing than the empty savannah of Australia.

Are you quite serious? Telling people they shouldn't talk like all parts of a continent are the same, and then dismissing another continent as boring because (you claim) it's all a single caricatured landscape?

Australia is an entire continent with a vast range of landscapes, just as much as Europe.

I'm not really familiar with Africa beyond its stereotypes, but it's several times bigger than either Australia or Europe so it probably has even more variety.

[KageTokage]

I forgot that during the rather infamously slow second visit to Labyrinthos, Cookingway randomly goes into a philosophical speech about how it's the reckless pursuit of perfection, oblivious to the consequences that led multiple civilizations to their ends.

If their intent was to make that applicable to the Ancients...then that's just a further bit of narrative dissonance because they mention that the Convocation had debated at length about the decision they were going to make. The people of the Plenty really didn't feel that similar to the Ancients either as it's stated through words and implied through the scenery that they cast off all potential sources of strife, even the ones that made life more fulfilling. There was no indication that the Ancients were trying to do the same, as they had debate halls specifically so people could voice disagreements in a structured civil manner, plus they had very...questionable standards of what constitutes "beneficial to the star" when it comes to their creations, but seemed to just accept the dangers inherent to the task.

[Iscah]

Here comes the 50000 gil question.

Both Elidibus and Hydaelyn speak of a promise we made so long ago. Elidibus does not know to whom he made the promise and what it was. My WoL can't remember a promise either. Somehow I have the feeling that Elidibus and also Hydaelyn have promised Azem something.

Elidibus
What's it!? I have my mission!

Elidibus
I am Elidibus! And it is my duty to steer mankind and the very star upon their true course. This I swore to...to someone.

Elidibus
We spoke, and I swore...what? What did I...?

Hydaelyn
Though I knew failure after failure, by recalling thy tales---and my promise to thee---I found the strength to carry on.

Hydaelyn
Fulfill our promise. Right the wrongs committed when the world was yet whole. Silence the song of oblivion...

What have we promised ? I watched so many Cutscenes but there is no promise.

I would have to go over our conversations with Venat to answer that question regarding her (I would guess either our conversation up on the walkway or just before we return to our own time), but I don't think it's related to Elidibus and his promise.

I also feel like a lot of people have latched onto the idea that "Elidibus will promise us something during the Pandæmonium storyline" when the resolution seems far more simple and presented within what we have already seen.

He took up the seat of Elidibus, and at that time would have made vows to the Convocation to uphold the duties of the seat. And then everything happens and now his memories are fading. Look at those quotes you included: first he forgets to whom he swore the promise, and then the promise itself. He is becoming a shell of himself, with no memory of why and what he is fighting for.

I'm still not really keen that they twisted his original role in the story into this – it rings a little much of the writers not being sure how he could be defeated, so they undermined him instead – but for what he is in 5.X it does a good job of showing how much his mind and memories are crumbling.

[Brinne]

I forgot that during the rather infamously slow second visit to Labyrinthos, Cookingway randomly goes into a philosophical speech about how it's the reckless pursuit of perfection, oblivious to the consequences that led multiple civilizations to their ends.

"When life gives you lemons*, make lemon muffins!"

* lemons in this context is narrative code for being forced to endure suffering, disease, tragedy and war

[KizuyaKatogami]

I would have to go over our conversations with Venat to answer that question regarding her, but I don't think it's related to Elidibus and his promise.

I also feel like a lot of people have latched onto the idea that "Elidibus will promise us something during the Pandæmonium storyline" when the resolution seems far more simple and presented within what we have already seen.

He took up the seat of Elidibus, and at that time would have made vows to the Convocation to uphold the duties of the seat. And then everything happens and now his memories are fading. Look at those quotes you included: first he forgets to whom he swore the promise, and then the promise itself. He is becoming a shell of himself, with no memory of why and what he is fighting for.

I'm still not really keen that they twisted his original role in the story into this – it rings a little much of the writers not being sure how he could be defeated, so they undermined him instead – but for what he is in 5.X it does a good job of showing how much his mind and memories are crumbling.

It’s sad to think that, had they gone with their plan of 1-2 more expansions, how much better Elidibus could have been as a character. I think it’s very easy to see he was rushed, but he still managed to be incredibly compelling in the short span of time we got him. Imagine an entire expansion of him getting his arc and seeing how he ticks and all that. I wonder if it could have topped base shb.

[Iscah]

It’s sad to think that, had they gone with their plan of 1-2 more expansions, how much better Elidibus could have been as a character. I think it’s very easy to see he was rushed, but he still managed to be incredibly compelling in the short span of time we got him. Imagine an entire expansion of him getting his arc and seeing how he ticks and all that. I wonder if it could have topped base shb.

For the direction he was ticking in, I can't see an additional expansion doing anything to his character besides a lot more vague declarations about his duty and the proper course of the star, and a slower decline into memory loss.

[anhaato]

It’s sad to think that, had they gone with their plan of 1-2 more expansions, how much better Elidibus could have been as a character. I think it’s very easy to see he was rushed, but he still managed to be incredibly compelling in the short span of time we got him. Imagine an entire expansion of him getting his arc and seeing how he ticks and all that. I wonder if it could have topped base shb.

Elidibus lasted all of two and a half expansions, I think he was done just fine. Rather, they needed the extra expansion time for Garlemald and Thavnair more than anything.

[EaraGrace]

Here comes the 50000 gil question.

Both Elidibus and Hydaelyn speak of a promise we made so long ago. Elidibus does not know to whom he made the promise and what it was. My WoL can't remember a promise either. Somehow I have the feeling that Elidibus and also Hydaelyn have promised Azem something.

Elidibus
What's it!? I have my mission!

Elidibus
I am Elidibus! And it is my duty to steer mankind and the very star upon their true course. This I swore to...to someone.

Elidibus
We spoke, and I swore...what? What did I...?

Hydaelyn
Though I knew failure after failure, by recalling thy tales---and my promise to thee---I found the strength to carry on.

Hydaelyn
Fulfill our promise. Right the wrongs committed when the world was yet whole. Silence the song of oblivion...


What have we promised ? I watched so many Cutscenes but there is no promise.

[linayar]

I was skimming through the recent posts and just want to be certain that we all know that teenagers can have romantic feelings, right? We're not talking about pre-teens or (shudder) prepubescents here.

Also, this game is rated T in the ESRB, which is supposed to be suitable for as young as 13 and older, so the WoL itself could be a teen.

Anyways, that said, I don't think there is any danger of a forced romantic relationship with the WoL. They'll probably, at most, have a certain level of ambiguity that is open for interpretation, and I personally think that would suit this game better, though having no hint toward any possibility would also work. Two people having a close relationship should not have to be more than friends as a default interpretation.

As for the promise, I would also think that has to do with being in the office of Elidibus (for Elidibus) and fighting Meteion (for Venat).