What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[aveyond-dreams]

the thing is... most medieval/fantasy games are based on europe. so sayong they should draw from good/well sold games is like declining any chances for different settings.

Yes they should probably learn from what makes games like Elden Ring so successful. When I first saw footage of it, I was instantly hooked. Twisted demigods who fought a war against each other in a hauntingly beautiful kingdom lit up by trees of golden light? Sign me up. That's an adventure I want to go on. In fact, that's the adventure and world that 12 million people decided to purchase.

Anyway are we seriously pretending that all of Europe is the same across the board here? Last time I checked there were some marked differences between say the UK and Italy, both locations being exponentially more interesting and appealing than the empty savannah of Australia. When I first saw the trailer showing off Stormveil Castle, I knew I wanted to buy Elden Ring. Same for FFXVI when its first trailer showed off older Clive as a rugged hero similar to men like Cullen or Alistair from Dragon Age.

If the 7.0 trailer depicts some arid wasteland or jungle with the Scions...sorry but that just will not have the same effect. Even the Stranger of Paradise trailer would be a step above that.

I look forward to seeing the reception of a game that sees the Scions up to their usual business in the middle of New World's jungles in a world void of Gods or interesting antagonists. Bonus points if they bring Lyse along for the ride. At this point I think I'd rather put up with her than some of the present cast members because at least she is somewhat attractive to me compared to the likes of G'raha Tia, which the game insists on pushing onto me at every possible opportunity.

Of all the men in this game to push on to us, why did it have to be him and Haurchefant? Strangely enough, no women in this game even remotely seem to take on such an overtly "affectionate" role, though I suppose over time that would become as equally aggravating given the lack of an option to avoid such interactions when you're not interested.

...

Of course demigods etc exist in other cultures but forgive me if I'm more interested in the demigods of Greece and Europe as opposed to the Americas or Africa. Forgive me if I am more interested in the story of a rugged knight/forsaken prince like Clive or Hien than I am about Alphinaud and meme-status G'raha Tia.

If you cannot give me a setting or characters to latch on to and continue to shove ones I don't care about in my face, what is supposed to keep me paying? I will absolutely double down on the fact that I believe a traditional fantasy setting would be the best place to start off in 7.0, with a handful of better characters on the side as well. The Scions journeying in Meracydia=Austrailia/Africa or the New World=Americas cannot compare, and I am unlikely to be convinced of otherwise.

[Brinne]

The idea that Europe and Europe alone is inextricably tied with ideas like "demigods," "war," "kingdoms," and above all, "trees of golden light" continues to be completely baffling to me, but all right? (Or "rugged hero," for that matter.) I mean, if aesthetic and architectural style in and of itself is so important that it trumps any possibilities for story, development, and creative potential with those styles for you, there's not much anyone can say but "sure." But those correlations are both very strange, and equally strange is the assurance that one person's individual tastes can definitively speak for the larger majority - both in what they potential settings they'd find interesting in Endwalker, and in what appealed to them in a game like Elden Ring.

Anyway, I'm as on board with the African, Australian, or any other -an-inspired fantasy environments equally, so long as they're used well. Like so many others, I loved Ishgard - and I also loved Thavnair and the Steppe and Ronka too. That they can co-exist in the same world enhances it, not detracts. All the variety for us to hang out in! It's a vast MMORPG that's been running for over ten years now. I think there's room to stretch in any aesthetic or creative direction anyone could want.

But suggesting that the developers should learn to appeal to the masses more if they want to keep customers continues to be very ?????? in the context of this thread in particular, of all threads.

[Brinne]

If you cannot give me a setting or characters to latch on to and continue to shove ones I don't care about in my face, what is supposed to keep me paying?

Forgive me for being a little abrasive here, but I promise you with absolute certainty that nobody here is that concerned about making sure you keep paying, or convincing you to fall in love with any particular culture. Where it starts to go into "strange" territory was the insistence that you could speak for the wants of the majority of players based on baffling and frankly, fallacious arguments.

All anyone here, or anywhere else, can do, is speak for themselves. I can post here in an attempt to convey to the team, and to others, how I felt about the story of Endwalker, and if that resonates with anyone, or clarifies anything, to someone who reads that post - one way or another, positive or negative - that's great and all I can ask for. When I say I absolutely loved Ronka and its aesthetic - I actually gasped and gushed about how beautiful I found the locale of the Rak'tika Greatwood and all its trappings when first playing Shadowbringers - I know I am only speaking for myself. G'raha Tia is not my favorite character either - and I like Hien far less - but I can acknowledge that I'm in the minority in those regards without asserting that most people definitely agree with me, and the devs had therefore better listen on those grounds.

[Jeeqbit]

It's a fantasy game, but it's also a final fantasy game, which means it can involve technology (mostly in the form of magitek, the garlean empire and ancient allag at the moment). It doesn't quite follow the same rules as other fantasy stories. I was impressed how they managed to make something straying so far into science fiction with space and time travel still feel like a fantasy story.

If you cannot give me a setting or characters to latch on to and continue to shove ones I don't care about in my face, what is supposed to keep me paying? I will absolutely double down on the fact that I believe a traditional fantasy setting would be the best place to start off in 7.0, with a handful of better characters on the side as well. The Scions journeying in Meracydia=Austrailia/Africa or the New World=Americas cannot compare, and I am unlikely to be convinced of otherwise.

I think they should tell whatever final fantasy story they want to tell rather than clickbaiting with an exciting-looking area that doesn't deliver because it wasn't the story they wanted to tell. If it's another desert or jungle that's fine with me.

[Lauront]

My own view is they should focus on making the setting interesting whatever they draw upon and avoid any preachy lecturing, particularly if they're shifting the focus to conflicts of "values" - I still want to see what they mean by that. I too will not be sitting around to endure more Alphirants or similar, particularly if they end up pushing values conflicting with my own, especially in terms of character responses. If EW is presaging what that's going to be like? Hard pass.

A proper rendition of Egypt could be interesting, because what we've seen so far is limited to a couple of dungeons. There's also other ancient cultures, like Persia, Babylon, Assyria and Phoenicia that they could draw on - I wouldn't say no to something based off the Aztecs or Maya. The expansions (other than SB) tend to be a mix of zones after all, so there's scope to cater to a variety of tastes. As Theodric mentioned, although most fantasy games draw on Europe, it tends to be medieval western Europe, so there's other regions and time periods (Rennaissance in particular) of the continent they could explore as well, and Ilsabard would be a good place to do so. As Rulakir said, it is a fantasy game at the end of the day, so focus should also go into making the locales somewhat otherworldly, and really try to visually differentiate it from existing zones - something both SHB and EW didn't always succeed at. My hope is that the graphics upgrade will allow for more detailed zones that can more closely match their concept art.

People seem to be under a weird misconception that primals are suddenly going to be absent from the story and/or are no longer a threat simply because means to counteract and cure tempering exist now.

At the core, they are still extremely powerful entities that were noted as taking entire regiments of trained soldiers to keep in check even in the case of the lunar primals that were undeniably weaker then their willfully-produced counterparts.

Foreign lands are not at the leisure of having access to those countermeasures, either, so I think it's a given we're still going to be running into them on the overseas continents and likely even in Ilsabard despite the strong Garlean presence.

Agreed - tempering just made the costs of fighting them all the more pyrrhic, but given enough aether, they're still capable of posing an immense threat. Aetheric WMDs.

Forgive me if I am more interested in the story of a rugged knight/forsaken prince like Clive or Hien than I am about Alphinaud and meme-status G'raha Tia.

Indeed, I think more variety in the Scions in that direction would help. Part of why I was hoping for a fresh cast + Estinien.

[Misplaced_Marbles]

Yes they should probably learn from what makes games like Elden Ring so successful.

Fromsoft game, souls-like, Miyazaki's name(<most important part) plastered all over the place, HYPE! = instant success and game of the year with 0% chance of failure.

Not exactly difficult. It's like final fantasy in that (although final fantasy has at least tried something different in the gameplay).

[Gemina]

I look forward to seeing the reception of a game that sees the Scions up to their usual business in the middle of New World's jungles in a world void of Gods or interesting antagonists. Bonus points if they bring Lyse along for the ride. At this point I think I'd rather put up with her than some of the present cast members because at least she is somewhat attractive to me compared to the likes of G'raha Tia, which the game insists on pushing onto me at every possible opportunity.

Of all the men in this game to push on to us, why did it have to be him and Haurchefant? Strangely enough, no women in this game even remotely seem to take on such an overtly "affectionate" role, though I suppose over time that would become as equally aggravating given the lack of an option to avoid such interactions when you're not interested.

Alisaie would be the one filling that role. Whether the player interprets her admiration for the WoL as a simple girls crush, or a mentorship and inspiration, it is there nonetheless. That's it though. As far as the close company we keep anyway. I would also argue that no male is pushed onto the WoL more than Zenos.

[Theodric]

Alisaie would be the one filling that role. Whether the player interprets her admiration for the WoL as a simple girls crush, or a mentorship and inspiration, it is there nonetheless. That's it though. As far as the close company we keep anyway. I would also argue that no male is pushed onto the WoL more than Zenos.

As much as I dislike Zenos, his obsession can at least be seen as entirely one sided. Most games have the good grace to allow players to consent to whether a particular character fawns over their chosen hero. As another poster pointed out, Alisae is underage and although G'raha is an adult he acts like a child at times. It's incredibly off-putting for a lot of reasons - especially when player characters have the ability to perform an eternal bonding with another player character.

It's effectively marriage, so if a character is eternally bonded...why are some of the Scions treating my character as if that isn't the case? Why are they actively trying to be homewreckers? Why is there no option to tell Alisae that my character is into men and let her down gently rather than unintentionally stringing her along?

Furthermore, Yoshi-P has already referred to Alisae and Alphinaud as the 'waifu' and 'husbandu' of some players which...is pretty questionable in itself for obvious reasons.

[HollowedDoll]

As much as I dislike Zenos, his obsession can at least be seen as entirely one sided. Most games have the good grace to allow players to consent to whether a particular character fawns over their chosen hero. As another poster pointed out, Alisae is underage and although G'raha is an adult he acts like a child at times. It's incredibly off-putting for a lot of reasons - especially when player characters have the ability to perform an eternal bonding with another player character.

It's effectively marriage, so if a character is eternally bonded...why are some of the Scions treating my character as if that isn't the case? Why are they actively trying to be homewreckers? Why is there no option to tell Alisae that my character is into men and let her down gently rather than unintentionally stringing her along?

Furthermore, Yoshi-P has already referred to Alisae and Alphinaud as the 'waifu' and 'husbandu' of some players which...is pretty questionable in itself for obvious reasons.

Ngl I always felt weirded out by ppl who basically ship themselves with random fictional characters, but seeing as one of the most active threads related to FFXIV is the most vapid attempts at finding a partner, I'm not surprised.

[Theodric]

Ngl I always felt weirded out by ppl who basically ship themselves with random fictional characters, but seeing as one of the most active threads related to FFXIV is the most vapid attempts at finding a partner, I'm not surprised.

Yeah, it used to bother me less but we're now stuck in a situation with no compromises. The game insists on pushing the Scions front and centre at every turn to the point where new characters struggle to integrate themselves properly into the story. As much as I liked Shadowbringers, I think it would have been better if more of the Scions had been left behind.

I'm indifferent to Ryne, though I appreciated that she was a new face and travelled with us across every part of Norvrandt. Heavensward was enjoyable as a consequence of having most of the Scions take a back seat which in turn allowed Estinien and Ysayle to shine properly.