What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Theodric]

Well Venat didn't think so, so she sundered the world to make them know suffering. As the previous Azem, she saw a lot more of the world than everyone else and was more likely to know.

Venat wasn't the only Ancient who travelled the world, though. Hythlodaeus sits down next to the player character at one point during the Elpis story arc and reveals that Emet-Selch is exceedingly well travelled and worked tirelessly to help whoever needed it.

On the other hand Venat, described herself in a rather arrogant manner - referring to herself as 'without prejudice' which we know is a lie because her reaction to people not doing exactly what she wanted was to murder every last man, woman and child present on Etheirys at the time.

Personally I don't think the genocide of the Ancients was ever justified given what we know of the situation.

[Brinne]

There's also Elidibus, a little brother figure by all accounts, acting as the heart, which is described as a heart-wrenching decision for them all. I thought before EW that that would be the main reason why - who knows, it still may be.

It's not something I'd seriously argue, but my Headcanon (TM) has always been that Azem didn't really have a concretely righteous reason for opposing Zodiark - they simply could not, emotionally, handle doing that to Themis - even if they couldn't come up with any alternatives - and a meltdown accompanied by ditching the Convocation ensued. I like the idea both on a JUSTICE FOR THEMIS level and also, I'd rather avoid treating Azem by default as the moral arbiter of all that is good and right and so different from those terrible Ancients, etc - which is how a lot of people seemed to respond to that grape story on the Lodestone, lmao.

[Lauront]

Well Venat didn't think so, so she sundered the world to make them know suffering. As the previous Azem, she saw a lot more of the world than everyone else and was more likely to know.

On the point of suffering, even Venat does not deny that they knew it - her claim is solely that they were able to rid of it for a time:

Venat: No, it will not, for there has ever been sorrow. Mankind was but spared its biting sting for a time.

Again, the issue (in her eyes) is not that they were oblivious to it, but that she thought they weren't going to respond to the crisis the way she wanted, and wouldn't change, according to the Q&A. Not that they'd never experienced suffering. One can take it a step further and say the reports Meteion brought back validated her romanticisation of suffering and, when her kin weren't acting in line with her expectations, that sufficed for her to give up on them and try another route, by ending them...

It's not something I'd seriously argue, but my Headcanon (TM) has always been that Azem didn't really have a concretely righteous reason for opposing Zodiark - they simply could not, emotionally, handle doing that to Themis - even if they couldn't come up with any alternatives - and a meltdown accompanied by ditching the Convocation ensued. I like the idea both on a JUSTICE FOR THEMIS level and also, I'd rather avoid treating Azem by default as the moral arbiter of all that is good and right and so different from those terrible Ancients, etc - which is how a lot of people seemed to respond to that grape story on the Lodestone, lmao.

Indeed, I was dreading them doing something like that - I never read the story that way, as to me the real focus was to explain their relationships and show Azem had similar traits to their model WoL more than trying to demonise the other ancients, and it would be one of the most off-putting things they could do had they gone through with such a thing as you mention.

[tokinokanatae]

I'd rather have a good story than obsess over where the story takes place, personally. To be clear: I welcome a hypothetical expac based on minority cultures not commonly seen in high fantasy. Sure, I love castles and Ishgard remains one of my favorite settings in the game. I also think the Steppe is one of the best-realized locales--on par with Ishgard, imo--and there's not a single castle to be found there. (Garlemald, which is popular with several of the people in this thread, is also an industrial fantasy location without any of the banner flying ramparts so beloved by high fantasy books and movies.) If you remain interested in seeing castles and dragons and concerned they have no place in the game's direction, New Game + is your friend.

Well Venat didn't think so, so she sundered the world to make them know suffering. As the previous Azem, she saw a lot more of the world than everyone else and was more likely to know.

Being widely traveled doesn't make you an expert in suffering, though?

[aveyond-dreams]

The Azim Steppe is a beloved location for many reasons, for one it stands out as one of the few Stormblood zones that actually have a bit of color in them. A wide open sky, us meeting Hien, getting to know the people of the Steppe in ways more meaningful than helping them sell fish, all good stuff. There was very little in the way of preaching about morals or ethics there that I can remember, aside from Gosetsu having an outburst about not believing in reincarnation but overall there was not much of what made Gyr Abania so insufferable.

Garlemald has value to high fantasy lovers as well as steampunk/futuristic lovers because for one you have people that remember the iconic vista of FFVI's Vector or FFXV's Insomnia, and the general appeal of a region whose culture draws upon the more militaristic era of Eastern Europe as well as Rome. Though by the time we arrive there is no visible imperial palace to visit, we got to ascend the Tower of Babil which was an ominous and impressive landmark in its own right. It is a shame we only got one Garlean zone as opposed to a Garlemald expansion, which could have easily drawn from various aspects of FFVI and mixed steampunk and high fantasy together in a way that is palatable to the Final Fantasy audience.

Apart from drawing from European countries, the next up on the list that has a wide enough appeal are countries from Asia like China and Japan. Naturally, Japan has a more dominant presence in this game but it is unlikely we will return to the far east for more adventures until we are an expansion or two deep into Season 2. It is safe to say that an expansion set solely in Hingashi would appeal to most FF players, given the real world cultural relevance and influence of Japan.

[tokinokanatae]

So, it sounds to me like we're in agreement. No castles needed for an FFXIV setting to be interesting--it's all about the people and the story that takes place there. If the Steppe is one of Stormblood's few crown jewels, there's no reason other unusual fantasy locales couldn't be as equally compelling.

[CrownySuccubus]

This still does nothing to fundamentally solve the issue that I prefer a European/Asian setting over an African or American continent one. I do not want to play a game in the setting depicted in that image. This is the picture that sold me on Stranger of Paradise, with Castle Cornelia rivalling even Ishgard in terms of beauty and iconicness:

I don't know what to tell you, then. Thanalan, a near-Eastern/Arabian setting has existed from the beginning. In addition to Gridania. Each expansion save Heavensward has brought up more non-European settings, and they've been terrific.


If not having one specific thing not cater to your specific tastes turns you off, that's just a shame. I'd personally rather the devs keep giving us places like Gyr Abania, Doma, the Azim Steppe, the Ratika Greatwood, Ahm Araang, and Thavnair.

[Brinne]

Personally speaking, for example, I don't actually find Garlemald's aesthetic or culture particularly compelling in and of itself. I still loved the story about them, in their dedicated zone, because it was compelling and full of emotional nuance and conflict I could connect to regardless of my having no strong feelings whatsoever about Roman or Russian architecture, customs, or nomenclature. (Or steampunk, for that matter.) So I don't see why that couldn't apply to any culturally x-inspired fantasy setting you can think of.

[KageTokage]

I really would like a second Far East expansion with Nagxia and Hingashi being at the forefront if meant getting to spend more time with characters like Yugiri, Gosetsu, and the steppe Xaela...though I'm lacking ideas about what could possibly serve as a strong driving force to have us go there.

[aveyond-dreams]

So, it sounds to me like we're in agreement. No castles needed for an FFXIV setting to be interesting--it's all about the people and the story that takes place there. If the Steppe is one of Stormblood's few crown jewels, there's no reason other unusual fantasy locales couldn't be as equally compelling.

No, but they sure do help. The simple fact of the matter is that it is easier to sell European/Asian fantasy games to the Final Fantasy audience than whatever falls under the umbrella you describe as "unusual fantasy locales."

You have to consider the target audience here. You will have an easier time retaining and attracting players by doing new takes on locations that people have consistently expressed interest in seeing as opposing to ticking off cultures and regions like a checklist to fit some sort of quota.

A castle in the sky surrounded by the clouds of the dawn or an imperial palace where cherry blossom petals drift on the wind will instantly draw more people in than a jungle in the New World or...whatever it is they have in Australia.

Blossoms floating in the wind in a palace and fantasy structures in the air aren’t unique to Asian or French locations, though. Radz-at-Han is positively stunning and still has that fantasy vibe. You may not like it personally, but I’ll choose it over the snoozer that is the more classical Labyrinthos.

Stunning is not the word I would use to describe the region of Thavnair in any weather outside the Final Days, but ok. A more consistent color scheme would have gone a long way towards making the region more tolerable to be in, but as it is now I do not linger there like I used to back when Eulmore was our endgame hub.

I have yet to meet anyone who is a fan of Labyrinthos, there isn't much of anything classical about it that I can remember. It was an underground complex full of trees and the spaceship. It is not a location that has much in the way of revistability or role play value aside from the unique circumstances that were introduced in the Shadowbringers MSQ.

Again, know your audience. The audience FFXIV tries to appeal to isn't nearly as excited for an African/New World/Austrailia expansion despite whatever "uniqueness" such settings bring. They can be 1 or maximum 2 zones per expansion, but I have to ask myself why I would spend time in those zones if I had the option to go hang out in worlds like that of Elden Ring? Or Valisthea when FFXVI comes out?

With various things competing for our attention, I'm sorry to say but I'm more interested in visiting Castle Sanbreque than I am about visiting FFXIV's New World.

I really would like a second Far East expansion with Nagxia and Hingashi being at the forefront if meant getting to spend more time with characters like Yugiri, Gosetsu, and the steppe Xaela...though I'm lacking ideas about what could possibly serve as a strong driving force to have us go there.

I'll do my best to provide one here:

I do not recall if Nagxia was based off any specific reason but if we assume it draws from China then I imagine a decent plot could revolve around restoring a monarchy there (if they ever had one?) based off the eastern principle of a mandate of Heaven wherefrom rulers of China derived the right to rule. While the leaders another nation want to establish a child puppet ruler in the region, the adventurer and their eastern allies embark on a task of uncovering the whereabouts of the trueborn heir of the previous dynasty.

In order to fulfill the mandate, you guide the heir on a journey of personal growth through battles against the enemy force while collecting the royal relics that were lost during the Garlean occupation. After a final battle in the sprawling complex of a "Forbidden City" like palace, you crown the heir as the son/daughter of Heaven, and peace is restored to the region.