What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[aveyond-dreams]

This still does nothing to fundamentally solve the issue that I prefer a European/Asian setting over an African or American continent one. I do not want to play a game in the setting depicted in that image. This is the picture that sold me on Stranger of Paradise, with Castle Cornelia rivalling even Ishgard in terms of beauty and iconicness:

[Lauront]

I mean, the information we initially got about the third sacrifice was essentially from Emet-Selch, so I guess I have to assume that's what he thought the civil war was about. Soft-hearted as he is, perhaps he was projecting, and truly felt terrible about having to sacrifice those chickens? Heck.

The JP version of the Hyth shade dialogue, coupled with what we know now of Zodiark, strongly suggests they were creations, which yes, would put them in the flora/fauna ballpark by and large. What makes me say this? Well, the primal is said to have seeded new life, and we know that their primary method of introducing new species into the world was creation magicks. As a primal, Zodiark appears readily able to materialise concepts, such as the ones Fandaniel invoked while controlling him. The star, provided they met its criteria, would then imbue them with souls.

There were possibly some potentially sapient creations amongst those, but the star is rather selective about what it sticks souls into and familiars as well as other arcane entities generally did not qualify, barring exceptions (potentially) like Meteion. This is all reading between the lines, but my intuition is that her meeting with the WoL in Elpis (given that this all forms part of a time loop now) may have allowed her to spin/believe in a story whereby certain types of creation, including some familiars could, with (a lot of) guidance, grow sapient and inherit the star, particularly the forebears of the 'beast tribes'. But yes, the combined evidence we now have is strongly suggestive of ensouled creations one way or another, and not ancients, as such. And like others, I suspect it was mostly just something she latched onto as a pretext, as her primary focus was avoiding the fate of the Plenty and the sacrifices could be argued (on her view) to result in that... which was definitely the impression the Anamnesis scenes gives, as well as the answers in the LL Q&A. I don't think the writers saw much of a point of focusing on them, so switched the focus onto the whole "suffering" theme.

In any case, I very much agree that the condition of the souls on the moon adds to the emotional dimension of pressing forward with the sacrifices. Opposition to the plan went from dividing their population to dwindling to her group between Elidibus's emergence and her summoning, and given that he was the primal's heart, one can surmise he was in a position to relay the souls' sentiments. If the post-Elpis fast-forward flashes are any indication of the arguments her faction were making, I think it's clear why they would not get very far, particularly given that she did not share the truth of what was motivating her concerns with them.

[Brinne]

I think there's a lot of misunderstanding about how much potential fantasy Africa could have. As most probably know, Africa is a huge continent with vastly different kinds of civilizations and levels of society. Unfortunately, it's also been the subject of centuries of misinformation, both unintentional and malicious.

I would love to see a well-done expansion set in a culture based around Africa for a lot of the reasons you describe - the caveat being, of course, that it would have to be well-done. I actually feel a lot of trepidation about the prospect of a potential New World expansion, because, uh, given the Vanu-Vanu and Mamool Ja, I do not have a lot of confidence in the team's ability to portray indigenous people in a respectful way.

But as far as I'm concerned, the more variety and history in the world we get to explore and see intermingle, the better. That's just how worlds are! I can enjoy traditional fantasy castles as much as anyone, but that's certainly not all I'd be interested in seeing. Its reiteration over and over across the genre gets a bit tiresome, honestly. I was surprised at how much I ended up enjoying Thavnair as a setting.

[Rulakir]

I would've tried to find an alternate solution, which I believed to be what Azem tried to do but EW (and subsequent interviews) muddied those waters. I'm still not happy about how it's written that Azem absolutely did not assist with the Convocation/Zodiark to the extent they were branded a traitor and not deemed worthy of a memory crystal, but the door is left wide open that Azem could've been working with Venat. It's BS. They should've committed to neutrality.

As for it being about the sacrifices, that either could've been a legitimate schism in society she capitalized upon or a convenient lie she told to amass followers. There's no evidence in game she ever shared the truth with anyone, at least not about the sundering. Unless she managed to find more twisted individuals like herself and Hermes, I can't imagine she'd be successful in piecing together a sizable enough crew with the understanding that her goal was to eradicate their race and split apart the star they held in such high reverence.

Regarding not-yet-explored continents, I mostly only care that it's a fantasy setting and that they don't push ideologies.

[Asari5]

there are castles and dragons everywhere in fantasy... would love to see fantasy based on african and american cultur/mythology.

[Lauront]

I would've tried to find an alternate solution, which I believed to be what Azem tried to do but EW (and subsequent interviews) muddied those waters. I'm still not happy about how it's written that Azem absolutely did not assist with the Convocation/Zodiark to the extent they were branded a traitor and not deemed worthy of a memory crystal, but the door is left wide open that Azem could've been working with Venat. It's BS. They should've committed to neutrality.

They may still do that - my guess at the moment is she convinced Azem to defect on a "trust me bruh" basis, using her influence on them as their mentor, knowing she'd need them (probably without explaining the why) and tempering would prevent her from making use of them, hence the departure potentially seemed capricious. I doubt she'd have revealed the full scale of her plan to them, unless they really want to double down on the character being her accomplice; I think they now realise that may be a bit too much for many to just accept. They've left that open to player interpretation, but I agree with the sentiment; if it were my character, and she revealed her plan, they would definitely oppose her. The WoL's desire to blabber about the truth in spite of Elidibus cautioning them not to is not suggestive to me of someone who could sit idly by while keeping such a secret.

Regarding not-yet-explored continents, I mostly only care that it's a fantasy setting and that they don't push ideologies.

Same.

[Rulakir]

The WoL's desire to blabber about the truth in spite of Elidibus cautioning them not to is not suggestive to me of someone who could sit idly by while keeping such a secret.

We haven't seen anything from either the WoL or Ardbert to suggest that Azem would've agreed with Venat's plan. Every version of Azem we've heard about and/or seen has fought tooth and nail to preserve their world at the cost of others' worlds, which is another reason why the possibility they could've been working with Venat doesn't sit well with me.

My theory is Azem couldn't be a part of the Zodiark summoning because of Hythlodaeus or perhaps because of disagreeing with half of their population in general sacrificing themselves. It's not something I would've wanted to bear witness to either. Not to mention that it had to be tearing Emet apart as well.

[aveyond-dreams]

I can enjoy traditional fantasy castles as much as anyone, but that's certainly not all I'd be interested in seeing. Its reiteration over and over across the genre gets a bit tiresome, honestly. I was surprised at how much I ended up enjoying Thavnair as a setting.

I see no reason to deny your wishes but I also see no reason as to why they should take priority over the widespread appeal that European/Asian castles and palaces have. Perhaps their overwhelming presence in the genre is because a lot of people are interested in seeing them.

At present my thoughts on Thavnair are that our second visit was more impactful than our first one but the color palatte of the region was only balanced around Final Days weather, and the zone does not look great under normal daylight. I have no plans on pursuing the battle beast tribe quests based there this expansion due to my dislike of the zone, especially when I have the option instead to run dungeons with Estinien.

[Lauront]

We haven't seen anything from either the WoL or Ardbert to suggest that Azem would've agreed with Venat's plan. Every version of Azem we've heard about and/or seen has fought tooth and nail to preserve their world at the cost of others' worlds, which is another reason why the possibility they could've been working with Venat doesn't sit well with me.

My theory is Azem couldn't be a part of the Zodiark summoning because of Hythlodaeus or perhaps because of disagreeing with half of their population in general sacrificing themselves. It's not something I would've wanted to bear witness to either. Not to mention that it had to be tearing Emet apart as well.

There's also Elidibus, a little brother figure by all accounts, acting as the heart, which is described as a heart-wrenching decision for them all. I thought before EW that that would be the main reason why - who knows, it still may be.

[Jeeqbit]

1.There was no foreshadowing

Maybe there wasn't, but it's interesting that the word "despair" was used so much so maybe they picked up on it from their own playthroughs and used it for EW.

The ancients knew of suffering. Stop acting like they didnt, we're shown numerous times they knew of it, they werent immune to it.

Well Venat didn't think so, so she sundered the world to make them know suffering. As the previous Azem, she saw a lot more of the world than everyone else and was more likely to know.