What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Lauront]

Honestly, especially after the Q&A, where Ishikawa discussed Hermes in contexts where Venat would be a more natural fit, and her still apparently not really having anything to say about the latter - it makes me wonder if originally Hermes and Hydaelyn were actually a single character. You know, named Hydaelyn. But then I'd assume that the rest of the team protested against having Hydaelyn be so obviously "bad," so the concept was split into two. I think it would make a lot of things fit - the weird overlap with their attitudes and actions towards Ancient society, just with one portrayed negatively and the other positively - the "mother" motif - who actually has a "daughter" figure as the story turned out? The "protest against sacrifices" reasoning originally presented in ShB fits more with Hermes's MO, going as far as his long rant of "do you think it right we sacrifice all these lives?" - whereas it just feels weirdly dropped with Venat herself. And why is Flow, as per Ishikawa, also associated with Meteion, and "accepting death"? Where would that fit in with a Venat -> WoL POV?

Obviously just spitballing, though.

I do think it's a possibility. Theodric had mooted something similar to me when doing that part of the MSQ, in that it seemed either it was a plot point that was meant for her but ditched or that they were working together more closely on the initial writing. But yes, firmly in the realm of spitballing and impossible to say for sure unless the writers were to come out and say it.

[Rulakir]

But then I'd assume that the rest of the team protested against having Hydaelyn be so obviously "bad," so the concept was split into two.

I've had the feeling all along that the Hydaelyn we got in EW was not what was originally intended and I suspect it's because someone other than Ishikawa voiced complaints about her being anything other than good. It could be the reason why she had to rewrite the script to be more 'acceptable' (and why the others believed the revisions were for the best). I would assume she revised as much as possible and what she couldn't was shrouded in a copious amount of gaslighting in an attempt to re-frame Venat's actions.

My only question would be, what was the original intention of Fandaniel if most of Venat's characterization was shifted to Hermes? It's an interesting theory though and certainly seems plausible.

[Kozh]

I read another comment saying if you didn't like Hermes then you lack empathy and have never experienced depression. It's so galling.

Sigh.... I wish I could say I'm surprised by this type of response. Sadly it's a very common method of gaslighting they like to use.

Honestly, even with my rambling about Hermes, I actually relate to him a lot (and I like him quite a bit tbh). Like, really a lot. Because I also struggle with my naivety and idealism clashing with the harsh reality. I sympathize with him, just like how I sympathize with Emet, Elidibus, and Lahabrea (who had to endure 12k years of loneliness). Hmm, now that I think about it, maybe the reason I "hate" him is because how much I see myself in him? Sort of projecting my fears, insecurity, and general depression? Ah, this turns weird lol

Venat though on the other hand... it's very hard to sympathize with her. If they leave Venat as she was before EW (just like what we saw in anamnesis anyder), I would like her more. But in EW they turned her into some messianic figure with an ego of a star, dictating the fate of her people by herself. She reminds me of a Persona game character who choose all the bad choices. The only thing preventing a complete bad ending is because the devs want a happy end.

[Brinne]

Honestly, even with my rambling about Hermes, I actually relate to him a lot (and I like him quite a bit tbh). Like, really a lot.

Hermes fans within the Venat skeptics represent! \o/

[Rulakir]

Sigh.... I wish I could say I'm surprised by this type of response.

I've noticed this community really likes to compare levels of empathy and it's weird. I'm not even sure how you're supposed to prove or argue that (you're probably not because it's dumb :P).

I generally don't believe someone's fictional preferences tell you anything about them personally. It'd be like trying to judge someone's personality based on their favorite song. Having said that, of all the supposed 'depressed' characters the one I related to the most was Emet. Particularly his penchant for using sleep as an escape.

Hmm, now that I think about it, maybe the reason I "hate" him is because how much I see myself in him?

I've thought about that based on the fact that I should understand and sympathize with him, I am a depressed vegan after all, but I've come to the conclusion that's not it. I think it's that despite my having similar feelings, I could never do what he did. I can't even give my cat his insulin shot, my SO has to do it because I don't want to hurt him, I'm really going to condemn all life? Come on now. :P

[Brinne]

I've thought about that based on the fact that I should understand and sympathize with him, I am a depressed vegan after all, but I've come to the conclusion that's not it. I think it's that despite my having similar feelings, I could never do what he did. I can't even give my cat his insulin shot, my SO has to do it because I don't want to hurt him, I'm really going to condemn all life? Come on now. :P

I mean, Hermes - Amon is a bit of a different story, obviously, but - he himself didn't directly hurt anyone! He just decided to let Meteion go ahead and then immediately wiped his own memory of doing so. There's a huge difference! (What I mean to say is, Hermes is a coward and a bad person and I think he is fantastic for it.)

[Rulakir]

Maybe if he hadn't been acting against the Ancients I'd have more appreciation for him but, like Venat, he's responsible for the destruction of my favorite characters/world so I can't help but hate him.

I'm reminded of the classic film "Leave Her to Heaven". The lead actress, Gene Tierney, said a waitress refused to serve her once due to the character she played, a woman whose obsession destroyed multiple lives. I loved the movie and the character, but I fully understand why someone would hate her.

[Lauront]

It's almost like they stem from people who themselves lack the empathy to understand why some players might dislike him.

[PawPaw]

Remember when Hermes tried to unironically draw a parallel between the worthiness of the lives of all of humanity and the lives of his rabid fire-dogs that had to be put down because they tried to murder everything they saw?

[PawPaw]

Hermes couldn't even contain a single Emet-Selch for very long. I struggle to see what kind of threat he could pose that would be meaningful enough to justify not telling the world leaders about the incoming disaster.