What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Nayukhuut]

Well, I just finished the MSQ and I am annoyed again. It's not because I don't agree with helping the Thirteenth, because I do. It's because we are still speaking morals that I no longer think we embody in the game. We talk about how no one is beyond saving, and how everyone deserves a chance to fight for their world, and how it is wrong to decide the fate of an entire species, and I agree. But then the story goes and completely instills Venat as a hero even though she did all those things. Not even the Void is beyond saving, but those Ancients needed to die, apparently. -_-

I feel like a hypocrite when I do anything heroic now, and it sucks. So many ways they could have made the horrors Venat committed not taste as bad, and they did none of them. They just full on expect us to be okay with the genocide of an entire people, and the deaths of all the shards that came after, because it served our goals in the end and they keep telling is Venat is the good guy (she is not).

I just... I can't get behind the erasure of an entire species because they didn't align with how she thought they should act. She wanted new life to flourish and she thought they were overly reliant on Zodiark? Okay, so she destroys ALL life so that it has to start again, shoves in her own gods we have to pray to elsewise the worlds combine back together, and gives us a moral code she approves of to follow. The story routinely makes a point of telling us that nothing is without hope, and that nothing is impossible... but then it turns around and says expect these people.

And sorry, I know I am ranting again.

[Theodric]

Hah, don't worry a lot of us feel the same way!

Speaking of which, I suppose shortly after a new patch is a good time to drop an invite to the Discord server that came about due to this thread's existence as a place to discuss the problems with the game's story:

https://discord.gg/9kP2e7b5G

[Nayukhuut]

Hah, don't worry a lot of us feel the same way!

Speaking of which, I suppose shortly after a new patch is a good time to drop an invite to the Discord server that came about due to this thread's existence as a place to discuss the problems with the game's story:

https://discord.gg/9kP2e7b5G

Thank you kindly. Soon as I get to my proper computer I will make sure to join that.

[Renathras]

All I will say is that while I'm always appreciative of people who speak up on my behalf, some people are walking, talking red flags and when they reveal themselves as such, it's better to walk away and let them get on with it than wrap yourself up in trying to engage with that sort of behaviour. They're beyond reason or understanding, they have their pre-set notions of the world and themselves, and you can't do much to change it. Sometimes the desire to explain yourself can be powerful, but trying to use logic where this none rarely leads anywhere productive, or worse, leaves you feeling tired or frustrated.

Yeah, fair enough. You're right in that I can't convince people beyond reason or understanding. It is just so frustrating when people slander you and a bunch of people seem to agree with them, so it pushes that strong impulse to defend and explain yourself. I've gotten to where I'll try once, if they continue, I'll try again, then I just try to not keep engaging. The problem is when someone else takes up that banner and several others join and lie about what just happened, so at that point I feel like I have to recap, explain why that person was wrong AND the series of posts that the latecomer seems to want to ignore (in this case, the insults).

On the one hand, I should probably just ignore all of it. But then if I never say anything in my defense or clarify my original posts being misinterpreted, then that slander hangs unchallenged in the air, which is also not really palatable.

Then again, even the most antagonistic posts against me only get ~15 likes or so, so maybe there are just 15 or so haters and no one else cares. I suppose I can take some comfort in that. But it's so exhausting when even a simple "I disagree" - or worse, like in the Zepla thread, where I literally said I agreed with her - leads to PAGES of attacks on me. That's not right nor healthy on the part of the bullies doing it.

But maybe you're right and such people are beyond reason. I'm more concerned with what other people who aren't them think, but I'm going to start limiting myself to one clarification reply and, if the person still refuses to see reason, moving on. I'm tired of being accused of saying something I didn't, posting "No, I said THIS and meant THIS, not that", only for the person to insist they can read my mind and I was saying what THEY think I said anyway. It's the worst form of putting words in someone's mouth when they continue to do it even after I've gone on the record to set said record straight that their initial interpretation was not correct or my own intent.

But yeah, your advice is good. Easier said than done, but sage.

*strokes beard* I would be very impressed if that were true given how difficult and demanding Seal training is. :P

That individual's attempt at ridicule aside, no, wasn't a SEAL.

Though them posting it is weird, since I don't recall making any claims about being in the Navy here (I may have mentioned military, but I tend not to be overly specific), but never my training pipeline. I think they're confusing me for someone else.

That said, my demanding training was...well, SEALs are a combination of physical and mental. My school as the most intellectually difficult in the Navy, I guess? Rather not say more - owing to the fact I know it will just lead to ridicule - but if you're curious, look up what big Navy school is in Charleston, South Carolina. Opposite coast from BUDS in Cali. Not The Citadel, the other one. Won't say any more than that.

[Cilia]

On the one hand, I should probably just ignore all of it. But then if I never say anything in my defense or clarify my original posts being misinterpreted, then that slander hangs unchallenged in the air, which is also not really palatable.

Slander is spoken. In print it's libel. (Joking... it's just a Spider-Man 2 reference...)

Let me just say this, and I mean it in all honesty and with all respect: it's not worth it. These same folk been complaining since 6.0 and will complain until 6.55 and probably beyond. If you liked it, that just has to be enough; ignore the hate, because it's not going to stop.

It might not feel right but in the long run ignoring it and letting it slide is the wiser course. It's not worth the time, effort, or frustration... and I know from experience dealing with the same crowd.

[Absimiliard]

Slander is spoken. In print it's libel. (Joking... it's just a Spider-Man 2 reference...)

Let me just say this, and I mean it in all honesty and with all respect: it's not worth it. These same folk been complaining since 6.0 and will complain until 6.55 and probably beyond. If you liked it, that just has to be enough; ignore the hate, because it's not going to stop.

It might not feel right but in the long run ignoring it and letting it slide is the wiser course. It's not worth the time, effort, or frustration... and I know from experience dealing with the same crowd.

Dude, ya'll are in a thread that exists for people to criticize things they don't like about the story. How, exactly, does hate have anything to do with it? Being critical of a product indicates one cares about it, not that they hate it. People that have nothing but hate for the game would already be long gone. This pretending like there's some giant hate mob ravaging the forums thing isn't as convincing as ya'll think it is.

[Supersnow845]

Dude, ya'll are in a thread that exists for people to criticize things they don't like about the story. How, exactly, does hate have anything to do with it? Being critical of a product indicates one cares about it, not that they hate it. People that have nothing but hate for the game would already be long gone. This pretending like there's some giant hate mob ravaging the forums thing isn't as convincing as ya'll think it is.

Goes into a thread saying it’s purpose is to offer legit criticism

“Yo why y’all criticising in here y’all must be haters”

[Renathras]

“Yo why y’all criticising in here y’all must be haters”

Who said that, though?

EDIT:

there's still bad faith attempts to frame criticism of the story as 'hate'

Again: Who is saying that?

I'm not trying to be pedantic, but it seems a lot of people are saying people are saying this...but no one's actually saying it. It's kind of a strawman at this point.

[aveyond-dreams]

Dude, ya'll are in a thread that exists for people to criticize things they don't like about the story. How, exactly, does hate have anything to do with it? Being critical of a product indicates one cares about it, not that they hate it. People that have nothing but hate for the game would already be long gone. This pretending like there's some giant hate mob ravaging the forums thing isn't as convincing as ya'll think it is.

It's always been bewildering to me how FFXIV players consistently misinterpret criticism as hate for the game. Unfortunately that has led things to where we are now, in which the discussions that need to be had for the game to improve are impossible to have.

[Swordsman]

It's always been bewildering to me how FFXIV players consistently misinterpret criticism as hate for the game. Unfortunately that has led things to where we are now, in which the discussions that need to be had for the game to improve are impossible to have.

Man, if I got a nickel for every time someone told me to go play another game for criticizing FFXIV's story. Some people just can't grasp the idea that the game has other redeeming qualities that make me want to stay subbed and play it.