World of Warcraft died because the developers only catered to casuals and world prog

[Kolsykol]

not even close to being true, unless you haven't even looked for a group many and many of dms highly encourage otherwise.. if that is what you believe you haven't even tried to find a good group, you probably just go with the 1st one you find lol

That is my experience I can't speak for yours.
But it's also the impression I get from the DnD Reddit and other forums too.
Obviously you can find other people but I am generalizing that's all I can do.

I don't think it's necessarily the DM's ( altho yes a lot of them are like that ).
I think it's moreso the players tho.
Most people in my experience are just kinda boring and react negatively to people who make different characters who stand out.

There's an online DnD group that performs on stage sometimes called '' acquisitions incorporated '', I think those are fun to watch but again IN MY EXPERIENCE people take it way too seriously and don't really allow for fun like that.
But yeah I think most DM's are probably more open-minded about it but there's quite a lot of players who just go in with the mentality of it basically being a MMO dungeon group.
And I think that the general DnD community is extremely uptight and gatekeep a lot even if they like to complain about gatekeepers.

To some extent this will be true with most communities because I think a certain type of person has a tendency to be the most active on places like Reddit in particular, but ultimately that will affect how the community is viewed too.
I actually used to play DnD with a couple of friends as a kid too and had fun I kinda miss that.
As an adult tho I've had quite negative experiences and people who take things VERY seriously to the point it's not fun.

Edit: I'd actually say that this applies a lot to tabletop communities in general, I dunno if there's just a lot of jaded people who grew up with it and became really uptight as adults or something.
But I've noticed this in other tabletop games too.
I love Warhammer too I think it's a bit mixed there too altho not quite as bad in my experience.
There's just a lot of people who have very set in stone ways of thinking about how things '' should '' be played and I think in a game as old as DnD that sits pretty deeply.

I think younger players might be a bit different this is mostly my experience with more middle aged people at least.
But yeah it kinda feels like playing with your not so tolerant to different things parents or something.

[Ronduwil]

It was more negatively affected by the amount of grindy and timegated aspects put in it. That made even their own version of the Palace of the Dead known as Torghast be known as 'Choreghast'. People may bemoan PotD and find it boring, but its never been mandatory for your endgame raids and trials.

I completely agree with you, and I'd like to add that while Torghast resembles palace of the dead, it also has the following characteristics that make it absolutely awful:

• Gear is not normalized, when casual players complained it was too hard, the developers sheepishly admitted that they'd tuned it against M+/Heroic raid gear and then nerfed it into the ground, pissing off the M+/raiding crowd who already found it lacking the challenge that they craved. In the end, no one was happy.
• The rewards are lackluster. It doesn't drop anything except for the soul ash that everyone is there to grind and additional companions for your mission tables (like getting additional NPCs for your Grand Company squadrons).
• It's filled with trash mobs upon trash mobs upon trash mobs that (at best) provide temporary buffs for the rest of your run. There is no persistent power gain.

[Ronduwil]

Anyone who thinks D&D is not a story game is greatly mistaken. Every campaign is a different story. There were a number of stories in WoW, each told separately, each brought into the greater fold of an overarching storyline. Even in Vanilla WoW.

I think you missed the point they were making. There was no MSQ or overarching story like there is in Shadowlands. Their point about D&D was correct, and you even reiterated it. It was a bunch of different stories that you played through while questing. This didn't really change until Cataclysm, when Deathwing destroyed large parts of the world and riled up the elementals. For the first time ever, all the zone quests centered around that event. I honestly don't mind that, but it definitely changed the feel of WoW from that of a secondary world that you're meant to inhabit to a story game that you're intended to beat. Ironically, FFXIV was clearly designed as a story game that you're intended to beat, but it seems to nonetheless support the idea of a secondary world that you're meant to inhabit. For example, WoW players have clamored for player housing for years, and Blizzard has yet to deliver. Instead, they got an instanced space that they could unlock decorations for. FFXIV, on the other hand, created a whole other endgame for a subsection of the player base that centers around housing.

[Padudu]

let it go. As apology, I'll even give you a ride.
Come here, hop into my pocket. (lyt xD)

huh. They cut off PS3 support the moment I left.
They gotta supply more PS5 first if they wanna cut off the PS4.

Dang man, usually I like to be wined and dined first but.. I'll give you an exception. I believe in them making more soon. I think the little amount of PS5s in the market is just a product of incredibly crappy timing and circumstance. Pandemic, shipping issues, material shortage, ect.. not to mention all the scalpers. Personally I can't wait for the day since that means SE no longer has an excuse to not upgrade the dang engine once and for all

If I understood the last Live Letter correctly, 7.0 is for sure going to have PS4 support, but it may (likely will) end after that given the updates to graphics, but considering the availability of PS5 as well.

Yet another excuse to upgrade my computer.

I dread the day that I have to upgrade my computer for XIV.. :P

That being said, looks like they'll be support for quite a few years. 7.0 having support doesn't surprise me, PS4 is still pretty big in the market. I feel like once we move away from old consoles we can truly have some nice upgrades for the game... maybe.. the game suffers so so much from being dragged down by consoles, makes me sad lol.

[hagare]

Dang man, usually I like to be wined and dined first but.. I'll give you an exception. I believe in them making more soon. I think the little amount of PS5s in the market is just a product of incredibly crappy timing and circumstance. Pandemic, shipping issues, material shortage, ect.. not to mention all the scalpers. Personally I can't wait for the day since that means SE no longer has an excuse to not upgrade the dang engine once and for all




I dread the day that I have to upgrade my computer for XIV.. :P

That being said, looks like they'll be support for quite a few years. 7.0 having support doesn't surprise me, PS4 is still pretty big in the market. I feel like once we move away from old consoles we can truly have some nice upgrades for the game... maybe.. the game suffers so so much from being dragged down by consoles, makes me sad lol.

Hey, I can always throw in a few bars of chocolate in there xD

Crappy timing indeed. Seeing store hold lotteries for the right to purchase a PS5 is just hilarious.

I just got a new laptop that can max out 14, I hope they don't go too crazy with the updates.

[Vahlnir]

I just got a new laptop that can max out 14, I hope they don't go too crazy with the updates.

I wouldn't expect any significant changes for a long time, if ever. You'll get your money's worth and then some out of that laptop I'm sure.

[hagare]

I wouldn't expect any significant changes for a long time, if ever. You'll get your money's worth and then some out of that laptop I'm sure.

*crosses fingers*

[Illmaeran]

I dread the day that I have to upgrade my computer for XIV.. :P

I know, me too! It's suuuuch an inconvenience! I'm pretty sure my current, and even likely my old, computer(s) will run the upgraded game with no issues...but "Hey honey, they've upgraded graphics in the game and I need to upgrade my computer for it." has a nice ring to it.

[Laphicet]

Even if the OP is a troll and their WoW comparison is somewhat incorrect, the game is certainly not heading in the best of directions and the devs are already going down the path of ignoring players. Just look at the healer role and you can see this clear as day.

Healer players have had their complaints ignored near entirely for the past several years. Gameplay reduced to one button spam, classes gutted for the sake of simplicity, class quests destroyed and lore retconned or outright removed, characters ruined, gear is overwhelmingly WHM themed and they have to make every gear set have feminine bits to it (like how they butchered judge Drace's armor with the bozja healer gear), negative skill floor and a super low skill cieling, Etc Etc and all complained about notably and endlessly for years.

And what do we get told for it? "Just go play ultimate"... A response on par with shit like "Don't you guys have phones" and "you think you want it, but you don't".

[Teno]

Even if the OP is a troll and their WoW comparison is somewhat incorrect, the game is certainly not heading in the best of directions and the devs are already going down the path of ignoring players. Just look at the healer role and you can see this clear as day.

Healer players have had their complaints ignored near entirely for the past several years. Gameplay reduced to one button spam, classes gutted for the sake of simplicity, class quests destroyed and lore retconned or outright removed, characters ruined, gear is overwhelmingly WHM themed and they have to make every gear set have feminine bits to it (like how they butchered judge Drace's armor with the bozja healer gear), negative skill floor and a super low skill cieling, Etc Etc and all complained about notably and endlessly for years.

And what do we get told for it? "Just go play ultimate"... A response on par with shit like "Don't you guys have phones" and "you think you want it, but you don't".

The healer situation has been like that since Shadowbringers (Stormblood some would say) and it seems clear to me that they are definitely catering to casualism more and more, as they stated they didn't want to make healers more "difficult" (LOL).