World of Warcraft died because the developers only catered to casuals and world prog

[Renalt]

Comparing WoW to FFXIV is about as Apples to Oranges as it can get. I've played both and have enjoyed both.

I will say I will go to WoW before FFXIV if I get a huge itch for PvP that needs scratching.

Maybe I'll do a WoTLK Private server again. CHances are I'll be a Druid again because they can do everything.

[TheMightyMollusk]

WoW's dead? Why didn't anyone tell me? I would've made a cake.

[Renalt]

WoW's dead? Why didn't anyone tell me? I would've made a cake.

I say make a cake anyway...and if feeling neighborly you could mail me a slice.

I'm sure it'll still be good when it reaches me. Maybe. I'll probably have a bad time later on but that's for future Renalt to suffer through.

[Atelier-Bagur]

This is an old thread but Ill bite. WoW didnt die off because of the casuals, in fact the game was originally made to be the most casual friendly MMO in the market at the time of its release. What made WoW decline, were the slow churn complication of systems, bad design choices, monetization of in-game services with its cash shop, mishandling of content releases, unfun character progression and obvious retention systems.

Another big factor for its decline was also that by the time of WotLk's release the MMO market became oversaturated with clone products as well as the audience moving to other things once technology advanced and interests changed alongside other games and genres came out that became popular.

Basically WoW's big success was mostly being the MMO at the right place, at the right time with the gaming industry while also catering to the casual audience rather than focusing on the hardcore.

Sorry Skiros

[Ghost_of_Ebina]

Wow died? It has one of the largest number of players in the world.
What exactly is the definition of "died" in such cases?
If something is easily and carelessly labeled as "dead" when they lose just a nanometer of enthusiasm, you are living a life with no problems.

[Alleluia]

Wow died? It has one of the largest number of players in the world.
What exactly is the definition of "died" in such cases?
If something is easily and carelessly labeled as "dead" when they lose just a nanometer of enthusiasm, you are living a life with no problems.

WoW dead. Final Fantasy dead. Guild Wars inherits the earth.

[DPZ2]

At a guess, when you drop from 12 million active subscribers to a million or so active subscribers, a game is considered "dead", regardless of the fact that a million active subscribers has only been a dream for many MMORPGs through the years. A lot of those MMORPGs are still making money, mind you, with less than a million active subscribers. Many continue to do so over decades ...

[Mcg55ss]

As someone who played WoW from 2005-2022 the problem wasn\\'t any of those things. Problem was blizzard for some reason started pushing towards trying make it so you "bring the player not the class" at all levels which is absurd given Blizzard\\'s history of balance. There is always something dead AF and something borderline broken in the game and high end players always stack that. Ignorant mid-core see that and think "oh you only can clear this if you have X amount of warlocks or w.e. Casual didn\\'t care cuz...well they were casual working to just get AOTC is a challenge. Blizzard also became more focused on it\\'s eSports MDI over it\\'s casual community as well, take this and the still unbalanced flex raiding at some breakpoints (like 10m still being either insanely easy or near unkillable) and you got current state of WoW. If WoW was geared towards casual they the death of 10m raids would never happened in fact in all reality 20m raids would been one to die because in fact it had less people raiding in it. Most people who have came to 14 over WoW are the casual community not mid-core because of how it handles things like tribals rep grind and such and if 14 would invest more in pvp it probably could easily secure that community as well (because let\\'s face it blizzard ignores them completely).
Now you say you have problem with it catering to casual players yet casual players probably make up WAY WAY larger % of player base most HC -sHC so on will consume content at high rate and stop playing per normal and nothing ANY developer can do will stop that, If you know NEW WoW players that quit after one tier and are NEW at the game that\\'s kinda on them because and they would do the same with WoW consume 1 tier then quit and if they are new that\\'s just their problem as there is tons they haven\\'t even touched probably in the game they could easily go and enjoy but choose not to.
You say FFXIV loses 50% players between expansions and that\\'s bigger is hilarious meanwhile I have been in WoW expansion that lost that many or more in the first 6 months of a expansions releasing so please kid. Anyone remember WoD

[Renathras]

...people couldn't fathom the thought that WoW could be getting worse.

This is laughably untrue.

EVERY TIME a new competitor came on the scene, rumbles and rumors of "The WoW Killer" and as time went on "THIS time for sure/This time it's different, guys!"

People complained about homogenization, about button bloat, about button pruning, about how the game's best days were behind it (that started as far back as Wrath), and so on and so forth. Each new expansion brought new controversy - "Content's too easy!" "Now content is too hard!", "Kung fu panda?!", "Snorlords of Drowsmore!", "This game is only for Raiders!", "This game is only for dirty casuals!", and on and on it went - and still does. The great irony to me is that WoW's decline hasn't even come from its systems, it's come from irl PR disasters.

WoW was the only game (relatively speaking) in town back when there were few alternatives and it had the vast lion's share of the MMO playerbase. Consequently its troughs were shallower vs its playerbase. When you have 10 million players, 3 million quitting is less than a 3rd vs if you have 2 million players, 3 million quitting would leave you at negative 50% and be a loss of 150%.

FFXIV is not a perfect game - no game is - and they've made decisions I think are bad for the game - like not having an Exploration Zone or any grindy new content to jump in and out working on during downtime or late patch droughts (e.g. ARR/HW Relics OR SB/ShB Exploration Zones), and that shortage of content isn't made up by Criterion (premade) and Deep (premade) Dungeons that don't have the pickup group mentality of Eureka/Bozja or EVEN of ARR/HW Relic grinds, and Island Sanctuary isn't even on the same plane - it's more on the playing field of Ishgard Restoration...which was ALSO better, more pick up/grind in downtime compatible and felt like a big community effort!

But despite all that, I don't think FFXIV is doomed or any of that other nonsense. And plenty of people ARE talking about it. For all the people insisting this community pounce on any criticism of the game, that's not true at all. They don't like hysterical doomsaying or meanspirited attacks on the community of the Devs - if you make a critique and simultaneously bash the community as intolerant, the community is going to be antagonistic...because you did that SECOND part - but it seems to generally respond well to rational critique in neutral tone with workable suggestions. And I think the Devs likely do as well, they're just bad at communicating that.

[hunkygladiator]

This is laughably untrue.

EVERY TIME a new competitor came on the scene, rumbles and rumors of "The WoW Killer" and as time went on "THIS time for sure/This time it's different, guys!"

People complained about homogenization, about button bloat, about button pruning, about how the game's best days were behind it (that started as far back as Wrath), and so on and so forth. Each new expansion brought new controversy - "Content's too easy!" "Now content is too hard!", "Kung fu panda?!", "Snorlords of Drowsmore!", "This game is only for Raiders!", "This game is only for dirty casuals!", and on and on it went - and still does. The great irony to me is that WoW's decline hasn't even come from its systems, it's come from irl PR disasters.

WoW was the only game (relatively speaking) in town back when there were few alternatives and it had the vast lion's share of the MMO playerbase. Consequently its troughs were shallower vs its playerbase. When you have 10 million players, 3 million quitting is less than a 3rd vs if you have 2 million players, 3 million quitting would leave you at negative 50% and be a loss of 150%.

FFXIV is not a perfect game - no game is - and they've made decisions I think are bad for the game - like not having an Exploration Zone or any grindy new content to jump in and out working on during downtime or late patch droughts (e.g. ARR/HW Relics OR SB/ShB Exploration Zones), and that shortage of content isn't made up by Criterion (premade) and Deep (premade) Dungeons that don't have the pickup group mentality of Eureka/Bozja or EVEN of ARR/HW Relic grinds, and Island Sanctuary isn't even on the same plane - it's more on the playing field of Ishgard Restoration...which was ALSO better, more pick up/grind in downtime compatible and felt like a big community effort!

But despite all that, I don't think FFXIV is doomed or any of that other nonsense. And plenty of people ARE talking about it. For all the people insisting this community pounce on any criticism of the game, that's not true at all. They don't like hysterical doomsaying or meanspirited attacks on the community of the Devs - if you make a critique and simultaneously bash the community as intolerant, the community is going to be antagonistic...because you did that SECOND part - but it seems to generally respond well to rational critique in neutral tone with workable suggestions. And I think the Devs likely do as well, they're just bad at communicating that.

lmao you honestly sound like your avatar