World of Warcraft died because the developers only catered to casuals and world prog

[DPZ2]

And WoW Vanilla was never a real story game.

Anyone who thinks D&D is not a story game is greatly mistaken. Every campaign is a different story. There were a number of stories in WoW, each told separately, each brought into the greater fold of an overarching storyline. Even in Vanilla WoW.

True, you could ignore the books, at least through Wrath of the Lich King.

But the books were not necessary to understand what is going on in the game. This problem has the current WoW.

If by "current WoW" you mean anything that followed Cataclysm, I'd tend to agree. But one must not pretend that books being the meat of every storyline is something that only recently cropped up. It's been a continuing problem for the last 10 years. Or have you conveniently forgotten every expansion after Mists of Panderia?

[Kolsykol]

Anyone who thinks D&D is not a story game is greatly mistaken. Every campaign is a different story.

Tbh I both agree and disagree.
Most people really just play DnD as a generic '' bonk evil wizard/ dragon or whatever on the head '', there's quite a lot of gatekeeping and people who have very low tolerance for DnD that doesn't just revolve around guys in google copy pasted armor going into a dungeon to slay a monster.
It really does just feel like an imaginary combat sim with dice sometimes or that's at least how a lot of people approach it.

And dear lawd forbid you want to play something that doesn't fit into a stereotypical generic archetype it really feels like every fighter, bard, thief, wizard or whatever are identical even down to their character designs.
If you've seen a wizard before you've basically seen them all, same with the rest too.

For a game that's supposed to be about story telling people have a pretty severe lack of imagination and acceptance towards anything that doesn't fit into the most generic DnD trope.

[Nekokaori]

Tbh I both agree and disagree.
Most people really just play DnD as a generic '' bonk evil wizard/ dragon or whatever on the head '', there's quite a lot of gatekeeping and people who have very low tolerance for DnD that doesn't just revolve around guys in google copy pasted armor going into a dungeon to slay a monster.
It really does just feel like an imaginary combat sim with dice sometimes or that's at least how a lot of people approach it.

And dear lawd forbid you want to play something that doesn't fit into a stereotypical generic archetype it really feels like every fighter, bard, thief, wizard or whatever are identical even down to their character designs.
If you've seen a wizard before you've basically seen them all, same with the rest too.

For a game that's supposed to be about story telling people have a pretty severe lack of imagination and acceptance towards anything that doesn't fit into the most generic DnD trope.

not even close to being true, unless you haven't even looked for a group many and many of dms highly encourage otherwise.. if that is what you believe you haven't even tried to find a good group, you probably just go with the 1st one you find lol

[Kolsykol]

not even close to being true, unless you haven't even looked for a group many and many of dms highly encourage otherwise.. if that is what you believe you haven't even tried to find a good group, you probably just go with the 1st one you find lol

That is my experience I can't speak for yours.
But it's also the impression I get from the DnD Reddit and other forums too.
Obviously you can find other people but I am generalizing that's all I can do.

I don't think it's necessarily the DM's ( altho yes a lot of them are like that ).
I think it's moreso the players tho.
Most people in my experience are just kinda boring and react negatively to people who make different characters who stand out.

There's an online DnD group that performs on stage sometimes called '' acquisitions incorporated '', I think those are fun to watch but again IN MY EXPERIENCE people take it way too seriously and don't really allow for fun like that.
But yeah I think most DM's are probably more open-minded about it but there's quite a lot of players who just go in with the mentality of it basically being a MMO dungeon group.
And I think that the general DnD community is extremely uptight and gatekeep a lot even if they like to complain about gatekeepers.

To some extent this will be true with most communities because I think a certain type of person has a tendency to be the most active on places like Reddit in particular, but ultimately that will affect how the community is viewed too.
I actually used to play DnD with a couple of friends as a kid too and had fun I kinda miss that.
As an adult tho I've had quite negative experiences and people who take things VERY seriously to the point it's not fun.

Edit: I'd actually say that this applies a lot to tabletop communities in general, I dunno if there's just a lot of jaded people who grew up with it and became really uptight as adults or something.
But I've noticed this in other tabletop games too.
I love Warhammer too I think it's a bit mixed there too altho not quite as bad in my experience.
There's just a lot of people who have very set in stone ways of thinking about how things '' should '' be played and I think in a game as old as DnD that sits pretty deeply.

I think younger players might be a bit different this is mostly my experience with more middle aged people at least.
But yeah it kinda feels like playing with your not so tolerant to different things parents or something.

[DPZ2]

For a game that's supposed to be about story telling people have a pretty severe lack of imagination and acceptance towards anything that doesn't fit into the most generic DnD trope.

You've had the sad experience of truly bad DMs, I guess. I started playing D&D again about 5 years ago by joining in on Adventurers League gameplay, which is based on a set book for the multiple DMs who volunteer to run it. One year you're battling elemental cults intent on conquering the known world. Another year you're entering the first level of Hell in order to close a portal and save a city. Each of these campaigns is fully plotted and the driving storyline is peppered with any number of encounters that both drive the story forward and provide background to the world your character lives in.

When I started playing D&D there were no such books, but we still managed to move along in worlds where the term "campaign" described a series of wargames played out with miniatures on a sand table.

You've really had a bad time of it if you think that "If you've seen a wizard before you've basically seen them all". Perhaps I've been lucky to group with people who actually roleplay their characters at a level beyond "Me Barbarian. Me Smash". Perhaps it's being exposed to 50-odd people on any given evening when Adventurers Guild was being played (COVID really did a number on such things), each with different levels of skill in the art of roleplay, but every one of them more than the caricature of players you've presented.

And, perhaps, it's because I rarely ran 'dungeons'; instead using a variety of sources from genres such as Space Opera and early modern Adventurers and hardly any actual D&D back when the books read "Advanced D&D" on the covers.

The remainder of your comments suggest that you can't find MMOs much different. Stereotypical generic archetypes, identical character designs (even when there is a rich set of choices, the Meta Rules Above All), and gameplay styles that can only be relieved by choosing another MMO when you need a break because you've grown tired of current tropes.

[Ronduwil]

Anyone who thinks D&D is not a story game is greatly mistaken. Every campaign is a different story. There were a number of stories in WoW, each told separately, each brought into the greater fold of an overarching storyline. Even in Vanilla WoW.

I think you missed the point they were making. There was no MSQ or overarching story like there is in Shadowlands. Their point about D&D was correct, and you even reiterated it. It was a bunch of different stories that you played through while questing. This didn't really change until Cataclysm, when Deathwing destroyed large parts of the world and riled up the elementals. For the first time ever, all the zone quests centered around that event. I honestly don't mind that, but it definitely changed the feel of WoW from that of a secondary world that you're meant to inhabit to a story game that you're intended to beat. Ironically, FFXIV was clearly designed as a story game that you're intended to beat, but it seems to nonetheless support the idea of a secondary world that you're meant to inhabit. For example, WoW players have clamored for player housing for years, and Blizzard has yet to deliver. Instead, they got an instanced space that they could unlock decorations for. FFXIV, on the other hand, created a whole other endgame for a subsection of the player base that centers around housing.