What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Lauront]

But as part of the overall picture relentlessly pushing that framing of Venat on us? Yes, it was tiresome, and I wasn't much into the "oh, you scamp" tone when Emet noted how very deeply Venat had screwed him over in particular. I was glad, at least, he fairly brusquely flipped Hydaelyn off and rejected her "apology" to him altogether.

It's just a pity that they didn't use the French/German wording for the scene in the EN version, because it's less susceptible to being twisted into some all-encompassing supposed concession on his that the ancients had no hope of dealing with the situation, which I think is not even a very plausible reading of it in the EN version, and even if it were taken that way, while very smart, he's not omniscient. But it's even more fraught with difficulty in those versions, because he specifically praises her ability as a matchmaker and bringing them all together at that place.

And again, though I've finally understood Venat (thanks Brinne) I still hate the scions. I realized that other than Estinien, the scions are generally privileged, all come from sharlayan and I don't feel should represent humanity in the game. The twins even come from a rich family. Estinien literally walked in the shoes of his enemy and got to know him and shared his pain. The most important thing is we got to see that and we were there with him.G'raha Tia's story was only in writing and we don't even know how long he stayed in the calamity world before he was shipped off to the past. We don't see it, we are just told, this happens.

I don't have an issue with their backgrounds as such, as ultimately it's just a starting point in life. I wouldn't've found it much compelling if they dragged a bunch of Estiniens to try force the point they were trying to make, because I reject the premise they're trying to push from the outset. It's more that they suffer very little in the way of any actual threats and are thickly shrouded in plot armour.

Honestly Fandaniel brightened my day whenever he appeared ever since 5.3. I think I just enjoyed my mental picture of a Joker-like, watch-the-world-burn Ascian finally set loose and making absolutely ghastly creations like the goddamned towers made of flesh from a dismembered corpse... better than what his whole character actually turned out to be. The gross flesh walls, the horrifying mass zombification of Garlemald, the creepy and weirdly amusing dinner date as you are incapacitated... I loved it honestly, I thought he had a real horror vibe going on that we didn't have in other villains so far (along with the Final Days when they actually matter – I absolutely loved the scene where it starts low-key, and I love its "musical theme").

Agreed, I enjoyed him as a character, as well as giving the impression that he might be serving some old god/Jenova type entity. I think the speculation surrounding him was far more interesting than what they went with.

One way I can enjoy Hermes is if I project that Fandaniel onto him, very deep inside of him, stifled by the society and culture he lived in. Like you though, the "but what is the meaning of life and death" angle did not work me, and the whole animal rights thing, while IMO an actually justified question to raise for debate in Ancient society, just grated on me because of how much the game seemed to be taking his side at the expanse of Ancients as a whole (also, real talk: I am arachnophobic and will irrationally not tolerate any damned eight-legged fiend in my bedroom; I have a good friend who always goes "NOOOoooOOO WHY WOULD YOU KILL SUCH A NOBLE ANIMAL" and while I know she's semi-joking, it still kind of annoys me... Hermes just reminded me of that lol). I was just... tired of him really quick. I became more engrossed when he finally let the villain inside him shine, but then, you know. The plot happened. The time loop plot. The Kairos plot. Venat actually complying with the conditions of his insane test and the game apparently telling me this is the right thing to do because Ancients just kinda sorta totally sucked and she's a hero, and, honestly, just everything Venat. Damn it. You're hired, Danny.

It's also not a particularly compelling angle to push when the sundered have a breezy disregard for life forms inferior to them and sometimes even similar ones, and when the Elpis sidequests showed some other ancients shared his sensibilities to some degree. It's why I believe the whole thing was more or less dropped from Venat's rendition of the 'test'. She didn't care about that, and neither do the player characters (or their companions) to any extent. I don't really buy into Hermes's POV, but he could've taken up a position at the Convocation and used that as you say to debate the matter and perhaps convince others to alter their methods. His reaction instead is one of petulant spite.

There's an interview with Yoshi-P, Ishikawa, and Oda in the next issue of Famitsu magazine. No translation that I know of yet.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...e_50page_ff14/

Some comment I saw of the poll results on that.

[Teraq]

Agreed, I enjoyed him as a character, as well as giving the impression that he might be serving some old god/Jenova type entity. I think the speculation surrounding him was far more interesting than what they went with.

I don't know what it's called in English, but in French Lunar Bahamut's raidwide AOE in Paglth'an is called "Scream of The Anomaly", and given the context we had at the time – that Fandaniel was apparently trying to recreate the Final Days with this plot –, I really liked the thought of referring to whatever caused the apocalypse as The Anomaly. I felt it conveyed something deeply wrong and Eldritch.

While I'm not super mald about the concept of Meteion herself, well, I suppose she didn't quite live up to what I had in mind. I wish I hadn't had anything in mind; I would have probably enjoyed EW a lot more.

[Ixon]

When they wrote themselves into the plotline that Zodiark was initially summoned to quell the catastrophe of the Final Days instead of being the source of it(like I believed before ShB), they had to come up with SOMETHING bigger and badder. The path they took was at least was more interesting than "Zodiark Bad, Hydaelyn Good", and I at least felt that going with the direction they did was more interesting than just some super evil guy that was just evil for the sake of being evil. I didn't really see Meiton as the ultimate baddy, but more just a conduit or tangible form of the ultimate baddie, that of the overall despair and hopelessness in the cosmos. Yes, she was the one who was shooting despair rays of despair at Etheirys , but I didn't personally feel like I defeated Metion at the end, I felt more like I had overcome the overall feeling of despair through my own desire to live. Perhaps that was a bad thing story wise? That I didn't really care much for the character that was Meiton but more of what she was representing? Not sure.

Other ranting thoughts: Fandaniel was a breath of fresh air, oddly enough, as it was nice to have someone who just wanted to watch the world burn and didn't have ulterior motives wrapped in "actually a good guy" plots like almost every other villain in FF had. Hermes was believable to an extent. In a civilization who all functioned on the same brainwave for the most part I am sure he felt extremely alienated amongst his piers based off his values of life as shown with the creations. Venat I didn't really have any feelings for. The more I recently read here the more I can see the confusion of her as a character and I can share the same thoughts, but for me in the beginning, when we learned she was the heart of Hydaelyn anytime I met her in the back of my mind I always though "that's cool, but we still have to get rid of your primalness". Oddly enough, the more I learned about Zodiark, the less I cares about him. He went from being the ultimate villain to a puppet on some strings. With the unsundrered gone, Fandaniel seemed best to pilot the Zodiark mecha as if Zenos did it would have just felt like Shinryu 2.0. As much as even I think time travel is a cop out, I think it was the only way to see the ancients as they were and not just as spooky specters in Amaurot, which I enjoyed. We could have maybe not have done the whole explanation that we are from the future, Venat knowing who we are and continuing to know till the end, and instead just have been able to watch the events before the final days unfold, but I assume there was some reason why they decided to go that route. Overall I think this wrapping up of the story could have probably been better told especially across two expansion instead of one, but I am also happy to get move away from this plotline(with occasional revisits) and onto something new.

[Skyborne]

The Famitsu Fan Survey is out. Looks like Emet-Selch is still reigning from on high as the king of popularity.

I was going to stop at the meme number but I had to catch up on the last 16ish pages with popcorn in hand. Also not surprised at Emet-Selch... funny that the game basically grabs you by the shoulders and shakes you going LOVE CRYSTAL MOM, BOW BEFORE YOUR SUPERIOR but the grump reigns supreme. Such is the power of fujoshi chadettes. That said, our two biggest fanboys who also appeal to the fujo crowd being that high up is not surprising too.

RE: criticism of the expac... godspeed, I don't touch reddit with a 10 yalm stick. You'd think anonymous imageboards with no rep at stake would be a bit different, but on /v/ the general attitude tends to be 'turn off your brain and don't think about it, if you don't love the story then you are arrogant'. There is some criticism of the game and gameplay itself. Something tells me most of these individuals only jumped in during the ShB streamer craze and they haven't invested years into the story/lore like some...

....

As has been pointed out a bunch of times in this thread, the time travelling could have been replaced with the Echo. Given how solidly constructed Amaurot's buildings were and its position high up in the air, I think it's viable that Elpis itself could've survived to the present day albeit overgrown and with some islands missing/in rough shape. Instead of having Elpis as a zone, perhaps they could've had a 'North Garlemald' on the other side of the city and fleshed out the Empire a bit more... just a thought.

[Theodric]

'North Garlemald'

Region locked content. UK only. Norf Garlemald, simple as.

[Ixon]

As has been pointed out a bunch of times in this thread, the time travelling could have been replaced with the Echo. Given how solidly constructed Amaurot's buildings were and its position high up in the air, I think it's viable that Elpis itself could've survived to the present day albeit overgrown and with some islands missing/in rough shape. Instead of having Elpis as a zone, perhaps they could've had a 'North Garlemald' on the other side of the city and fleshed out the Empire a bit more... just a thought.

I don't know if I would personally have like that more, but it could have happened. Personally, I liked that we could walk and talk and interact with the Ancients pre-sundering. Echo flashbacks, or reading a dusty tome, or talking to specters doesn't make them feel as alive or real as they did when you could interact with them. I thoroughly enjoyed the side quests in Elpis more than a majority of zones in all of FFXIV. A lot of it for comedic sake, but side quests that that had you helping create and design monsters that you already knew about(mind you it's more time loop tom foolery) were very enjoyable. Plus the entire fan-service of doing quests with Emet and Hythlodaus. Not to mention that because of this echo time-loop thing we are able to learn more about Elidibus and Lahabrea( in the future hopefully) who in the past I could not have cared less about. Finicky and lacking solid plotline at times I still enjoyed a good chunk of what we were given.

[Skyborne]

I don't know if I would personally have like that more, but it could have happened. Personally, I liked that we could walk and talk and interact with the Ancients pre-sundering. Echo flashbacks, or reading a dusty tome, or talking to specters doesn't make them feel as alive or real as they did when you could interact with them. I thoroughly enjoyed the side quests in Elpis more than a majority of zones in all of FFXIV. A lot of it for comedic sake, but side quests that that had you helping create and design monsters that you already knew about(mind you it's more time loop tom foolery) were very enjoyable. Plus the entire fan-service of doing quests with Emet and Hythlodaus. Not to mention that because of this echo time-loop thing we are able to learn more about Elidibus and Lahabrea( in the future hopefully) who in the past I could not have cared less about. Finicky and lacking solid plotline at times I still enjoyed a good chunk of what we were given.

I liked it as well and it's probably the first time that I did every single sidequest in a zone (been working on the other zones as well, UT/Moon/Garlemald pretty much done). Still... the thought of 'man, all these people are gonna get screwed over hard' and the 'Thou Must Walk' scene just soured it a bit afterward. Shoutout to us being the cause of Behemoths and those Gigantoads sticky-tonguing us. Also, Charmion adoring us to an almost unhealthy extent and feeding us her flower juice... oh, and another shoutout to Meletos the Inscrutable, who cared nothing about ethics and just wanted to amuse himself with having us fight his very questionable creations... that survived to the present day in the Amnemesis.