The Problem with Paladin

[Shiggysonson]

My issue is that the gains for PLD over GLA are minimal, and being on PLD now requires a BRD, as its the only way to recover MP. I don't want it to be too easy just giving you MP, but as it stands PLD is useless because it cannot recover MP at all. Perhaps I'm just used to games where there was at least some minimal MP/Whateveritisinthatgame recovery for each class on its own, but also multiple classes that could recover MP for others, as opposed to just one.

The problem is on PLD, when you run out of MP you're SOL, as opposed to GLA which can get 2 MP recovery moves, 1 of which is also a stalling move, and one free heal. The only GLA/PLD MP recovery ability (which infers there was an intention for GLA/PLD to be able to recover MP somewhat) is total garbage as it restores about 5% the MP needed to cast cure, and almost never works.

From what I am seeing right now, GLA is better for both solo and party play, which from what I gather what was intended.

Yes, MP shouldn't be easy to recover yourself but you should be able to get some back without the use of meds or a bard - particularly seeing as the only healing moves we have require it.

I see what you're saying, and if paladins really are worse than gladiators in a balanced party, then I agree the paladin job needs to be adjusted. I just don't think taking away the usefulness of a support role is the right way to do it. They can just make it so the MP of paladins are more useful/important than gladiator MP. In other words, give paladins spells that make them significantly better than gladiators as long as they have MP.

[Andrien]

I see what you're saying, and if paladins really are worse than gladiators in a balanced party, then I agree the paladin job needs to be adjusted. I just don't think taking away the usefulness of a support role is the right way to do it. They can just make it so the MP of paladins are more useful/important than gladiator MP. In other words, give paladins spells that make them significantly better than gladiators as long as they have MP.

I can think of a few what if problems that might occur that'll result in down time for mp regarding PLD.
GLA tank is likely the best choice for these still.

long boss fight
time limits
large scale battles
EXP Parties

[Shiggysonson]

I can think of a few what if problems that might occur that'll result in down time for mp regarding PLD.
GLA tank is likely the best choice for these still.

long boss fight
time limits
large scale battles
EXP Parties

What?
No, seriously....what?!
I'm not saying make it impossible for paladins to manage MP. I'm just saying don't make it so they can manage MP alone. So are you saying if paladins were able to manage their MP alone, paladins would be better in all those situations? Wouldn't that mean a paladin with a bard is better in all those situations?

[Andrien]

What?
No, seriously....what?!
I'm not saying make it impossible for paladins to manage MP. I'm just saying don't make it so they can manage MP alone. So are you saying if paladins were able to manage their MP alone, paladins would be better in all those situations? Wouldn't that mean a paladin with a bard is better in all those situations?

Didn't make myself clear I see. I was agreeing with you and on top of that adding some possible scenarios

[Shiggysonson]

Didn't make myself clear I see. I was agreeing with you and on top of that adding some possible scenarios

Ah ic. Yeah sorry I wasn't sure what you were saying.

[Phobos]

What?
No, seriously....what?!
I'm not saying make it impossible for paladins to manage MP. I'm just saying don't make it so they can manage MP alone. So are you saying if paladins were able to manage their MP alone, paladins would be better in all those situations? Wouldn't that mean a paladin with a bard is better in all those situations?

I get what you're saying here, I think it should be more like:
PLD can survive and recover low/moderate MP to be able to cure itself every now and then to supplement WHM cures.
vs
PLD with a BRD can survive and recover moderate/high MP to be able to cure itself and others somewhat frequently to supplement WHM cures and help generate enmity.


Not having a BRD should not cripple you, having a BRD should enhance your effectiveness.

[Shiggysonson]

Not having a BRD should not cripple you, having a BRD should enhance your effectiveness.

I 100% agree with you. A paladin with access to a lot of MP should be a lot better than gladiator, and a bard should make this possible. Something like 1+1=2 for classes, and 1+1=3 for jobs.

[Phobos]

I 100% agree with you. A paladin with access to a lot of MP should be a lot better than gladiator, and a bard should make this possible. Something like 1+1=2 for classes, and 1+1=3 for jobs.

Yeah, I'm just saying - as it stands now PLD is garbage without BRD (after like 10 mins or so of fighting something). It should be more like PLD is good without a BRD, but when you have one you can do way more, as opposed to when you run out of MP theres no way of getting it back without one (should not force reliance on meds, though perhaps the price-point on them is decent, I'll have to check).


EDIT: Working now, but will make some attempts with PLD under different circumstances (will check out food/meds options and maybe get a BRD if I'm lucky) tonight to see how it goes. I'm hoping jobs can be better than classes but we'll see.