Would removing clemency allow for a better pld?

[Deveryn]

Clemency is part of what makes PLD the actual best tank in the game. I've had countless situations where I've been able to use that and other skills to help people hang on and get a fight done.

Cover is underrated, btw. There are a lot of effects in game that won't go through if the target takes 0 damage.

Some folks are too hung up on this idea of everything having to do DPS. Maybe they should stick to that realm of job to begin with. At the very least, look at playing one of the other tanks with more DPS in mind, like GNB.

To any that say a healer's output will be enough, you haven't seen what some of them are (not) doing these days. They're trying to favor DPS in dungeons because they're told that's what works in raids. I've seen all kinds of missteps from SCH not using soil to WHM burning afflatus stacks IN BETWEEN PULLS for that one lily shot. I was working on my GNB's tank you achievement and I did most of that with a friend who I can trust to heal me. I've now shelved the job until next expansion.

[Undeadfire]

Some folks are too hung up on this idea of everything having to do DPS. Maybe they should stick to that realm of job to begin with. At the very least, look at playing one of the other tanks with more DPS in mind, like GNB.

Huh? Wha.... Games been designed around DPS focus since it's release.

[Derio]

PLD has bigger problems than niche skills.

Rotation issues, opener issues, potency issues.

The opener is the the most unfriendly towards new players and is very clunky. Not to mention how the rotation can fluxuate. I dont see them fixing that in 6.1 but at the same time its something that probably wont get addressed until 7.0

[Deveryn]

Huh? Wha.... Games been designed around DPS focus since it's release.

It actually isn't. Sadly, a lot of people might like to think that, especially with BLU existing, but if you're ever going to have a successful encounter. Someone needs to be taking the hard hits and someone needs to be healing, so the DPS can properly do their job. Skipping phases is cool and all, but if you can't get the job done, then you might be lacking in something other than DPS.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I don’t think removing Clemency will magically ‘fix’ PLDs. If any, it will hurt their edge in those niche emergency situation & their white magic+knight fantasy.

I do think it’s such an outdated skill. I was rather surprised they decide to buff Holy Circle/Spirit but ‘nerf’ Clemency in EW. They no longer get the increased potency from Requiescat, which was personally the only time I want use them in ShB era if I need it in dire situations. Granted, it doesn’t seem like they’re trying to discourage us from using it either, considering at the end of their magical rotation PLDs have spare MP to use as a side effect of MP cost of Holy Spirit/Circle being halved and will overcap by a lot without casting any additional spells.

[DanielNegreanu_Adamantoise]

The devs already consider emergency stuff as a design flaw. Like tank invuls. You don't need them, and experienced players don't use them as emergency abilities but as planned mit.
Clemency as an emergency ability, geez, if thats the case then honestly why not a rezz instead? I joke of course, but a casted, late GCD heal is about as useful as a burning house.

To make PLD the true support tank I'd get rid of clemency and replace it with essential dignity. Essential dignity is just 400 potency and kicks up to 900 potency in "emergency" conditions. Most important aspect of it is: its ogcd

But more than that, it can be used as planned mit, just like "emergency" abilities like invuls can/are. You could make it special, so its half potency if used on self, so 200/450 if used on self, and full potency when used on others. And when used on others, heals yourself for half as well.

I'd personally go further and buff the hell out of Intervention, make the regen last 18 seconds instead of 12, and cost 25 oath instead of 50, but I digress.

Doesn't really matter I'm just using nascent flash as the party's secondary healer in NON-emergency situations now and, what do you know, those emergency situations aren't happening hrmm weird!

[Marxam]

IMO a better PLD has these things:

-Atonement changed to a trait and put to 3 stacks and applies MP/DMG to the next 3 weaponskills used.
-Clemency MP increased but instant cast or, ogcd but utilizing oath gauge with MP with slightly longer recast.
-Hallowed buff applied at the start of the animation and not the end.

The fate stay night swords I can take or leave it. Not a fan of the aesthetic but at least its thematically relevant unlike another sword tank job.

[Undeadfire]

It actually isn't. Sadly, a lot of people might like to think that, especially with BLU existing, but if you're ever going to have a successful encounter. Someone needs to be taking the hard hits and someone needs to be healing, so the DPS can properly do their job. Skipping phases is cool and all, but if you can't get the job done, then you might be lacking in something other than DPS.

Skipping phases? That's been outed years ago.... I am from 2.0 and DPS has always been the main priority system of this game, DPS makes fights easier, it reduces mistakes. I speed run Savage Raids, clear 1st week Savage Raids, etc, this is clear miss information. You will only find better capable players if you log really well in your parses, solid players don't play with low grade.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

IMO a better PLD has these things:

-Atonement changed to a trait and put to 3 stacks and applies MP/DMG to the next 3 weaponskills used.
-Clemency MP increased but instant cast or, ogcd but utilizing oath gauge with MP with slightly longer recast.

None of these are better, if anything they are significantly worse, Atonement change removes any and all optimisation from PLDs rotation, preventing it from trying to keep the rotation under raid buffs.
Clemency is fine as it is, it doesn't need to be a frequently used skill, usually the only problem with Clemency is the players using it erroneously. Slapping extra cost onto Clemency for QoL is unnecessary.

-Hallowed buff applied at the start of the animation and not the end.

While it can be an issue, it typically comes down to player error rather than a skill error, as invulns shouldn't be an "oh shit" button, since by that point things are probably not gonna end well. Invulns are more effective as planned cooldowns.

The fate stay night swords I can take or leave it. Not a fan of the aesthetic but at least its thematically relevant unlike another sword tank job.

Yeah that's very much an each to their own, not every aesthetic is gonna be pleasing to everyone.

[dspguy]

I'd keep clemency. It gives PLD the capability of keeping a PT alive in a dungeon boss fight if the healer drops. Sort of a fun ability, IMO.