What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[EaraGrace]

Not satisfied with ruining one forums discussion threads, our heroes(?) now journey on to ruin Reddit discussions as well.

[PawPaw]

Not satisfied with ruining one forums discussion threads, our heroes(?) now journey on to ruin Reddit discussions as well.

If by "ruin" you mean, debate my opposing views to the fullest then by all means yes! Pretty sure those who disagree don't have a monopoly on open discussion anywhere on the Internet.

[Lauront]

A while ago this thread was suddenly brigaded by a bunch of Venat defenders and I heard it was because someone had posted the link in one of their Discords. :P

Those who frequented the lore forum for some time might also have noted similar behaviour within it as well at times.

If by "ruin" you mean, debate my opposing views to the fullest then by all means yes! Pretty sure those who disagree don't have a monopoly on open discussion anywhere on the Internet.

It's just weird, really. People were linking it to give a flavour of some discussions on there. Many of us already frequent it one way or another. Apparently the fact that out of the 600k or so posters reddit has, a few of us expressing criticism of Venat on there is a huge problem, even if that wasn't really the intention behind posting the links - but people are adults and it's not really my business to police whether they do go on there to discuss it or not, nor do I see an issue with it. I tend to avoid 'discussions' on there as they often devolve into little more than shouting matches, and some users there can engage in behaviour that borders on stalking.

It's already an echo chamber in a different direction - redditors are often in the habit of downvoting any posts critical of the story, particularly if they're posted early on in a thread... and again, this sort of defensiveness was never present back in SHB, when reddit was full of threads that got quite heated about anyone who liked Emet (other than for those people who just liked shipping him...although even then I noticed some instances of it.) But with Venat we're just meant to roll with it and "move on". Strange. Should it be surprising that there is more pushback now given how EW concluded and the tidbits the Q&A clarified? I'd say no.

You ask people to stop whenever there's a little bit of hydaelyn vs zodiark debate outside of that one thread, people comply to that, then you blame us for making the lore forum dead? There's a bazillion ff14 lore that had nothing to do with Hydaely/Zodiark, and even if some people go rogue and post irrelevant debate on that threads, you can just ignore them? Go make your own lore threads if you're that concerned about it being dead lol. Lore forum being low traffic isn't weird, pretty much happen in other place too. Even lore discussion discord devolves into arguing over morality etc just like here or reddit, because when there's nothing new added, what should people discuss that haven't been done?

You ask people to stop whenever there's a little bit of hydaelyn vs zodiark debate outside of that one thread, people comply to that, then you blame us for making the lore forum dead? There's a bazillion ff14 lore that had nothing to do with Hydaely/Zodiark, and even if some people go rogue and post irrelevant debate on that threads, you can just ignore them? Go make your own lore threads if you're that concerned about it being dead lol. Lore forum being low traffic isn't weird, pretty much happen in other place too. Even lore discussion discord devolves into arguing over morality etc just like here or reddit, because when there's nothing new added, what should people discuss that haven't been done?

Quite frankly, a lot of people have little desire to discuss the lore until we get some clearer indication of where things are headed in the future and whether it's even something worth taking an interest in. There's already some good posters on there who either have quit or are on the verge of doing so, including amongst them those originally receptive to Venat as a character, so coupled with the fact that it's a quieter period, I am not surprised. Though as you say, said poster is free to set up threads on topics that interest them or participate in existing ones... but it's not like anyone has an obligation to keep the lore forum active or not cross-link reddit threads...

[Teraq]

Wait, so is engaging in a linked discussion against the rules of the internet now? Do I have to stumble upon the Reddit thread organically for me to obey the law? Or is it okay if I click that link then just nod politely and upvote everything? I am very confused. Also, I thought the notion of "brigading" involved some sort of numerical imbalance, such as mass vote manipulation. Oh jeez, beware the Ascian/Garlean stans who read page #203 of a particular thread on the official forums, the whole 8 of them are quite the force to be reckoned with, they might drown out Endwalker positivity!

For the record, I didn't engage in said Reddit thread. I went cross-eyed just glancing at the replies. I admire people who bother at all; personally I just don't feel like I have the mental energy to step out of my comfortable bubbles of comprehensive people just yet. I will fully admit I am right now a somewhat fragile person with a history of depression looking for a job, and honestly this thread has been fantastic group therapy! I feel less insane and alone. Maybe one day I'll be willing to speak to Endwalker enjoyers without feeling isolated and wholly inadequate (I am... not very articulate or good at arguing anything).

Personally, I jokingly refer to Hydaelyn/Venat as "Mommy" not in a mean-spirited way, but just because it's a bit of a fandom meme that grew into an habit (I would like to point out that the top comment on the Reddit thread previously mentioned is literally just "mommy"). Naturally, I would be 200% onboard with referring to Elidibus/Zodiark as Daddy for gender equality, but as it happens, the story never really featured the former as the latter (the whole deal apparently just being a plot device to justify a cool fight and retroactively give us an in-game excuse for why Elidibus never told us about Ancient history prior to 5.0 even though he seemed to be the best fit for it as mediator), and the latter by himself was revealed to not actually be a character but just the former's EVA unit. Alas, there appears to be very little legitimate ground to call him Daddy because this entire plot line is one big missed opportunity, never mind the fact that calling Babyface McShortking "Daddy" would feel a little weird.

[PawPaw]

Or is it okay if I click that link then just nod politely and upvote everything?

I'm pretty sure that would have been acceptable behavior.

A while ago this thread was suddenly brigaded by a bunch of Venat defenders and I heard it was because someone had posted the link in one of their Discords. :P

Well, well, the irony of it all. Color me shocked.

Is it something specific to FFXIV fandom, or just fandom in general as of late? I mean, there's always been a decent amount of people preferring the villains, right? Sephiroth, Kefka, a handful of Batman villains, Darth Vader, movie characters that happen to be played by the late Alan Rickman – it isn't exactly new. I am just weirded out by how prominent the moral crusaders seem to be in here. I feel like I need some kind of licence to be allowed to like villains, all while constantly walking on eggshells to remind anyone I interact with that I do not condone genocide as an actual person in the real world.

I've definitely seen more of it in the FFXIV fandom than I have anywhere else. Maybe the RP and headcanon elements have something to do with it? As you said, villains tend to be extremely popular in many different kinds of media and video games are no exception. The number of times I saw people who dislike Venat and/or like Ascians being compared to literal nazis on reddit yesterday was absolutely hilarious. I can only assume that it's an inability of some to distinguish reality from a written narrative. They can only associate things they perceive as "bad" with whatever real-life example they can come up with, and it doesn't register for them that the comparison is simply a false equivalency. Liking Darth Vader does not automatically mean that one would support a real-life Galactic Empire. Possibly there is a belief in these circles that people who can see the good parts of "bad" characters must only be able to relate and empathize because they are "bad" themselves. Doesn't really matter anyway, there's a reason that villains are popular the world over, after all. Most people just don't take it that seriously and love characters that are fun and interesting. They're not real, at the end of the day.

[kpxmanifesto]

Also, I thought the notion of "brigading" involved some sort of numerical imbalance, such as mass vote manipulation.

Yes, that is absolutely a part of brigading. But for some reason there's a person in this thread who thinks that creating a reddit post that talks about the EW story's shortcomings is an act of "brigading." Lol.

[kpxmanifesto]

??

I'll never understand why FFXIV fans get so offended when someone criticizes FFXIV.