Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[ASkellington]

You are confusing "not engaging/simple" with "not fun". For instance, WAR is very, very simples, and not all that engaging when compared to DRK and GNB right? However it's still FUN. At no point at all, did I say WHM had to be unfun or awful. You misconstrued what I am saying and fabricate what you want to hear. All I said was WHM will forever be designed to be simple. You won't win that fight as it's core to it's identity even historically throughout Final Fantasy titles. The dream in general on a design basis is to have jobs whose PLAYSTYLE appeals to a fraction of the playerbase. Some people enjoy the simpler, slower paced jobs compared to the higher paced, more engaging jobs. It is a terrible design choice to make every job as engaging as every other job, and better to have some resemblance of identity and playstyle that differentiates itself from another job. I'll say it again cause you miss it a lot, WHM needs work, WHM has room to improve, but it won't ever become more than what it was always designed to be. It doesn't matter if it's your favorite or not. I like AST or MCH the most aesthetically, but because I never enjoyed it's playstyle, I don't play it.

Yes and no and I think I can finally voice properly WHY.

Healer isn't engaging because all healer has is healing. No buffs outside of bland clones with AST and Chain Strat. This would be ok if healing in fights, if fight design let the healer part be engaging. They do not, have not and will not so long as SE wants it to be accessible.

That's fine... but you need to give us something else instead. Either make healing engaging in content or redesign the kits so we have something else to engage us.

So yes, actually. Healing isn't fun because it isn't engaging because they made it unengaging on the healing parts of a fight and didn't give us something else to replace it.

[Minarisweet]

Yes and no and I think I can finally voice properly WHY.

Healer isn't engaging because all healer has is healing. No buffs outside of bland clones with AST and Chain Strat. This would be ok if healing in fights, if fight design let the healer part be engaging. They do not, have not and will not so long as SE wants it to be accessible.

That's fine... but you need to give us something else instead. Either make healing engaging in content or redesign the kits so we have something else to engage us.

So yes, actually. Healing isn't fun because it isn't engaging because they made it unengaging on the healing parts of a fight and didn't give us something else to replace it.

Even if you voice it very appropiately the devs don't care and the people that disagree because they can't relate won't care either, even the people that play healer don't care much because most healer mains currently play something else or they just don't play the game after beating msq... Fun can't be explained and a lot of healer mains are not having fun and others don't play it much or just play it cuz they need to fill in.

[WaxSw]

Even if you voice it very appropiately the devs don't care and the people that disagree because they can't relate won't care either, even the people that play healer don't care much because most healer mains currently play something else or they just don't play the game after beating msq... Fun can't be explained and a lot of healer mains are not having fun and others don't play it much or just play it cuz they need to fill in.

Even if they dont listen now, they may eventually as long as we keep complaining, one thing is certain the problems won't ever get fixed if no one speaks about them.

Fun can't be explained true but there are some indicators that can help to measure it, right now the healer dedicated forums have for example an ongoing over 100 page thread about healers quitting healing, something unique that neither the dps forum nor the tank forum have and at least tell us there is "something" wrong, there are already logs showing how healers are spamming their nuke hundreds of times, more than any other action in their kit by a wide margin, unless cookie clicker is their idea of good gameplay that also shows there is "something" wrong. Fun can't be explained but if the devs can't see there is something wrong with their design it is because they either lack the experience to do it (which would a be problem because they are the devs) or outright refuse to do it and in both scenarios they need to be called out.

[Deceptus]

Even if they dont listen now, they may eventually as long as we keep complaining, one thing is certain the problems won't ever get fixed if no one speaks about them.

We have for years and the problem has only gotten worse. And when we bring up very specific examples of what is wrong with healing:

• Eden's Gate Sepulture (savage) was also cleared without healers when it was current content.
• The ultimate coil of bahamut was cleared without healers or dps
• The first two extreme fights being completed without healers.
• The first and second normal raid solod by all the tanks except Dark Knight
• A group of 8 warriors killed the first and second savage fight without healers

Our question gets misconstrued and then We're told "Go Play Ultimate" when Ultimate content doesn't even require healers.

Savage content doesn't require healers.

EX content doesn't require healers.

Dungeon content doesn't require healers.

[ForteNightshade]

We have for years and the problem has only gotten worse. And when we bring up very specific examples of what is wrong with healing:

So have Dark Knights and they're finally addressing Living Dead after six years. Granted, I suspect that largely has to do with Sage being horribly equip to heal it in dungeons, which has prompted even JP to be more vocal. But does show if we never stop complaining, they'll eventually cave. Maybe.

I think the argument needs to shift a bit. When Yoshida has an out, he will take it during any Q&A. Or the question will be mistranslated due to a poor summary. Both happened during the LL this go around. Instead of highlighting fights where people aren't even bringing a healer, which the devs can dismiss by citing higher ilvl, being synced down or the tier is tuned larger. We should focus on healers only have a single button, thus making them boring to play.

None of this is to say I'm okay with the healing state, by the way. I'd love if healers actually had to, you know, heal. Alas, it seems the devs are too concerned with little Timmy and Julie struggling. So we have to find something else to focus on first. And I'd rather they address the horrendously boring one button spam on healers first.