World of Warcraft died because the developers only catered to casuals and world prog

[PoeTato]

The irony in OP’s post is that WoW is actually dying because it doesn’t cater enough to its casual players. Harder normal raids, too many grindy systems every new patch, not alt friendly… the list goes on.

[Avidria]

The irony in OP’s post is that WoW is actually dying because it doesn’t cater enough to its casual players. Harder normal raids, too many grindy systems every new patch, not alt friendly… the list goes on.

Yeah wow was built and thrived on its casual player base. It has never for one second been anything resembling a hardcore game. I do think it has more midcore content than ff, at least when I still played it in anything close to a serious way anyway. The endless m+ grinding for RNG gear stats and the changes that had basically no good rewards from casual (non rated) PvP were a big part of what made me lose interest in playing the game seriously (this was back before shadow lands mind... haven't played that at all). The godawful story, bizarre anti-flight crusade and a slew of other little changes all piled up to put the nail in the coffin for me.

[MisterNublet]

The endless m+ grinding for RNG gear stats...

At least it is something repeatable with something to work towards. There is hardly any repeatable content in FFXIV and gear is practically meaningless outside of Ultimate patches.

[Vahlnir]

At least it is something repeatable with something to work towards. There is hardly any repeatable content in FFXIV and gear is practically meaningless outside of Ultimate patches.

If Ultimate is your main or only concern, sure. There is also plenty of repeatable content in FF XIV. Could it use more? Yeah, probably. But it's still there.

[MisterNublet]

If Ultimate is your main or only concern, sure.

You can complete savage with crafted gear. Gear progression only exists during Savage > Ultimate.

There is also plenty of repeatable content in FF XIV. Could it use more? Yeah, probably. But it's still there.

I thought it was clear since m+ part of endgame content. To make it clear, there is hardly any endgame repeatable content.

[Avidria]

At least it is something repeatable with something to work towards. There is hardly any repeatable content in FFXIV and gear is practically meaningless outside of Ultimate patches.

I'd literally rather fly around collecting sightseeing logs than spam m+ until I'm ready to bodily throw Helya into the Maelstrom

[HisShadowX]

At least it is something repeatable with something to work towards. There is hardly any repeatable content in FFXIV and gear is practically meaningless outside of Ultimate patches.

So this is where the Hardcore Minority doesn't comprehend the entire fanbase or understand the casuals or the majority of the people. Its sort of like how the hardcore minority doesn't understand why people don't like pain or BDSM. New Game + is there for people here for the story which is repeatable. Where literally you people get hung up on is, 'Where is the reward' or 'There is no reward and XP why would anyone play New Game+' its the way you people think like when your being whipped in a dungeon gaining pleasure from the pain. Most people don't see that as pleasure. For gaming your pleasure comes from 'the accomplishment' which is more akin to you all getting whipped and asking for more pain.

For the majority of people the story and the experience of replaying the story is the entire point. Of course you people will still get hung up over no experience or points or whatever, but that's not how most people think.

[HisShadowX]

Yeah wow was built and thrived on its casual player base. It has never for one second been anything resembling a hardcore game. I do think it has more midcore content than ff, at least when I still played it in anything close to a serious way anyway. The endless m+ grinding for RNG gear stats and the changes that had basically no good rewards from casual (non rated) PvP were a big part of what made me lose interest in playing the game seriously (this was back before shadow lands mind... haven't played that at all). The godawful story, bizarre anti-flight crusade and a slew of other little changes all piled up to put the nail in the coffin for me.

People have a short memory. World of Warcraft became insanely popular due to the fact it was geared towards more casuals. Pretty much hardcore players for years would sit in dying MMORPGS that would soon die or become free2play think Everquest, SWG, City of Heros and even FFXI (Which didn't die but due to the fact the Square allowed Tanka to have FFXIV to be built like FF11 this caused the game to fail and be shut down and remade).

Ghsotcrawler was very vocal during Wrath he did not like the fact it was becoming too easy and tried to make features to make the game harder like dual speccing but he was overruled but his design in CATA caused people to flee. It got to the point where during this time Hardcore Players starting, joining WoW during TBC and Wrath and those hardcore guilds had to announce like a scarlet letter they were a DKP Guild otherwise the server would black list them.

Really during CATA and finally the Panda expansion most of the casuals left and the developers started making the game more grindy and harder which now the game is a ghost town.

Also MMORPGs that implements the removal of the leveling system making sure all enemies are your level, making the game harder like Elder Scrolls, which also remade their game lost a good majority of their fanbase when they tried to make everything hard again.

Don't get me started on SWTOR that advertised itself as the WoW killer promising to be the most casual, friendly game, but during the launch they decided to shift towards the hardcore minority. It was a weird time because SWG players pretty much lived in a bubble and didn't understand the modern MMORPG etiquette like if your a DKP Guild you must announce yourself as such otherwise the guild will be mocked and shamed. The developers even paid to have Guild members of hardcore guilds flown to Bioware to hold a Guild Summit in which the developers pledged to these DKP Guilds to make the game even HARDER and never to release casual features like a party or raid finder and make it a TOS violation to go after members who complain about DKP Guilds.