World of Warcraft died because the developers only catered to casuals and world prog

[Lunalepsy]

Guess what, the majority of your playerbase is midcore. Not casual players who have a panic attack when they need to use more than three buttons on their hotbars. Not hardcore players who clear the tier in 16 hours.

Square Enix is on the same trajectory as Blizzard. The sad thing is that the playerbase refuses to see this because of all the blind hype, and this same thing happened in WoW - people couldn't fathom the thought that WoW could be getting worse.

I believe most midcore players will be happy with healers that can do more than two button rotations, for example. People do have brain cells in this game.

FF14 is clearly not catering to the world prog players. So the problem really is the incessant catering of casual players. This will eventually lead to FF14's decline, when you adjust content schedule and delivery to cater to the lowest common denominator, making the traditional midcore crowd dissatisfied and leave. Only reason this is obfuscated is because of all the influx. This game right now is full of new players that have no understanding of the game and have barely participated in the game for more than a tier. And even then I know plenty of WoW players who have quit after literally just one tier because the drought is even worse than in WoW.

People mock WoW's peaks and falls between expansions, but FF14's drops are bigger, sometimes by 50%.

The game was already casual when it came out back in 2004. Compare the game to FFXI and Ragnarok Online for a tremendous epiphany.

[HisShadowX]

Guess what, the majority of your playerbase is midcore. Not casual players who have a panic attack when they need to use more than three buttons on their hotbars. Not hardcore players who clear the tier in 16 hours.

Square Enix is on the same trajectory as Blizzard. The sad thing is that the playerbase refuses to see this because of all the blind hype, and this same thing happened in WoW - people couldn't fathom the thought that WoW could be getting worse.

I believe most midcore players will be happy with healers that can do more than two button rotations, for example. People do have brain cells in this game.

Thats incorrect. The Casuals started to flee during CATA when they made the game to hard. To the hardcore elitists the game was still to easy but yeah this is when people started to flee. https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...geons-are-hard

After the post by Ghostcrawler telling people to deal with it or quit people did start quiting. Pretty much the suits at this point forced the developers to cater to the casuals and in a rage the developers and Ghostcrawler decided to insult its playerbase by making the Joke Panda race a real race. Before in WoW they were an April Fools joke but now they would give us a Disney joke panda easy expansion in which you could feel the developers condescension and this is when everyone started fleeing except the hardcore elite because remember they got no place to go except dead games like FFXI or Everquest. Ghostcrawler and those developers quit shortly after the Panda expansion released it was their sign off insult to everyone.

At this point in time WoW is a ghost yard if you ever decide to go back barely anyone is in the cities like Stormwind. It feels and looks dead.

You cannot make a game focusing on the hardcore Elite. The original FFXIV tried that and had to destroy and remake the entire game. So anything they dare to think about focusing on the hardcore elite all Square has to do is think back to Final Fantasy XIV (Orginial) and what they had to do.

FFXI's creator Tanka the Vile was pretty much given an office with a window and no duties which in Japan its considered a punishment and to be known you will leave the company soon. May his name forever be forgotten.

Hawaiian shirt man the evil that is locked behind the door in the Ruby Sea also known by his real name Nobuaki Komoto the Director of the original FFXIV and with Tanka designed the original FFXIV for the hardcore elite causing an event that almost destroyed the company surprisingly he was not fired. You hardcore players would of love him as he would of made you BDSM desires complete as he designed FFXIV where if you played more than 4 hours a week no more XP and you would be punished. Say it with me. 'Oh yeah, my accomplishment, more pain!' Give me my accomplishment!' he still works on FFXIV and is supervised insteading of leading and causing more harm.

[SamsaraTrickstar]

Guess what, the majority of your playerbase is midcore. Not casual players who have a panic attack when they need to use more than three buttons on their hotbars. Not hardcore players who clear the tier in 16 hours.

Square Enix is on the same trajectory as Blizzard. The sad thing is that the playerbase refuses to see this because of all the blind hype, and this same thing happened in WoW - people couldn't fathom the thought that WoW could be getting worse.

I believe most midcore players will be happy with healers that can do more than two button rotations, for example. People do have brain cells in this game.

FF14 is clearly not catering to the world prog players. So the problem really is the incessant catering of casual players. This will eventually lead to FF14's decline, when you adjust content schedule and delivery to cater to the lowest common denominator, making the traditional midcore crowd dissatisfied and leave. Only reason this is obfuscated is because of all the influx. This game right now is full of new players that have no understanding of the game and have barely participated in the game for more than a tier. And even then I know plenty of WoW players who have quit after literally just one tier because the drought is even worse than in WoW.

People mock WoW's peaks and falls between expansions, but FF14's drops are bigger, sometimes by 50%.

ye sadly they have no reason to care for now. even if we at a low point but patched 6.1 and 6.2 will show more. so far they have lost arc to care for as its hitting strong. it sit on around 1m +- constantly for a month. if the next 2 patches here be dry and boring for he mid core players they move out.

[Y2K21]

Thats incorrect. The Casuals started to flee during CATA when they made the game to hard. To the hardcore elitists the game was still to easy but yeah this is when people started to flee. https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...geons-are-hard

They massed nerfed mostly everything. It was also the expansion where Raid Finder was introduced in the last raid of the expac. There was a lot more reason to why people didnt like Cataclysm than "it was just too hard" -- most relating towards the story.

The major issues with difficulty were within that Heroics had a super low barrier of entry, but were tuned hard. Then they got nerfed to be faceroll.

[BokoToloko]

There are many reasons behind WoW downfall but catering to casuals isn't one. The only time it catered to casuals was during WoD and its all too known content drought. it's always funny that people still have the mindset about casual players=bad players. Not spending 2-3 hours a day (which is a lot as you start adding up days) and being bad at playing the game aren't correlated. At all. Player's performance is mostly up to the player willingness to actually improve. Any issues with this are completely up to the player mentality, not the time investment.

Not to mention you're making a completely made up statement about the game's population. SE philosophy has been the same since ARR. And any and all who've been playing . If the majority of the playerbase were actually "midcore", the game wouldn't even have made it past Heavensward. And, as much as I like both WoW and FFXIV. WoW has always been more time consuming and hardcore oriented at any point of both games history. If people left WoW and entered FFXIV, you can be sure it wasn't because of casuals. Because this game has always catered to them far more than WoW ever did.

Also, all comparisons made with Lost Ark fall flat when you remove any nuance to them, because the gameplay in both games is completely different (honestly, they shouldn't even be in a same category, given that Lost Ark strictly follows the ARPG formula and design Diablo and PoE do).Aditionally, it's disingenuous to argue anything about Lost Ark being better/worse than anything else while it's still on the FOMO phase. Not to mention there are a lot more important factors to its success in play starting with the fact is F2P, regardless of P2W features, thus being a more accesible game. No price means anyone can install the game at no risk at all and the company gets more chances to toss a coin for a new player staying and spending money. It doesn't matter if only 50% of the registered users stays when you can get double the amount of registered users than another game with, let's say, 70% ratio of players that stay. Accesibility is a bigger key to success than catering to ANY population will ever be and the price is completely the biggest accesibility factor, other important ones being language and the agency they provide around play time. And both FFXIV and WoW are behind regarding monetary accesibility because the paywall behind them is far greater, given there is the base game+expansions+sub package to pay and the sub won't only deter new people but also returners. Does that mean anything in terms of quality or profitability? Not... necessarily. It just changes the draw needed to get people playing.

All in all, this is just another "new game is this game's killer" post that have been plaguing both these forums and WoW's over the years like a broken watch.

[Raikai]

Except I have been playing FF14 since Heavensward and I probably have played way more of FF14 than you ever will.

Hmm... why not post on your main account instead of "join date: Jul 2021" one?

[TMW001]

They massed nerfed mostly everything. It was also the expansion where Raid Finder was introduced in the last raid of the expac. There was a lot more reason to why people didnt like Cataclysm than "it was just too hard" -- most relating towards the story.

The major issues with difficulty were within that Heroics had a super low barrier of entry, but were tuned hard. Then they got nerfed to be faceroll.

Also them destroying the map and locations like the Barrens and thousand needles.

[CStrife912]

Hmm... why not post on your main account instead of "join date: Jul 2021" one?

Because then that would be putting forth that they're full on liars...you just have to 'take their word for it'

[CodeAvellus]

Hmm... why not post on your main account instead of "join date: Jul 2021" one?

I don't know Skiros, but people like me had to buy a new account to migrate to Steam. Yeah, i was forced to buy a new game and expansions and play the whole game again last year just to pay the subscription in my country's currency
I play this game since the launch of A realm reborn, but my join date is not 2013. So i don't think you should consider the join date ALWAYS a big deal.

[Vahlnir]

I don't know Skiros, but people like me had to buy a new account to migrate to Steam, so i could avoid paying the subscription in Dollars or Euros.
I play this game since the launch of A realm reborn, but my join date is not 2013. So i don't think you should consider the join date ALWAYS a big deal.

Yeah, join date doesn't mean much. If people have been around long enough, however, they will know that Skiros has gone by many names, and none of them good.