How is anyone fine with the 4-month patch delivery schedule?

[ZedxKayn]

Idk about you, but I can't decorate the outside of my apartment and have zero land to garden in...

That's exactly what I'm saying, because whenever someone brings up housing requiring a sub not to be locked out off, someone always come in to say "BUT APARTMENTS!1!!" so I wanted to get that out of the way first, that apartments and FC rooms don't equate a house

[Ixon]

That's exactly what I'm saying, because whenever someone brings up housing requiring a sub not to be locked out off, someone always come in to say "BUT APARTMENTS!1!!" so I wanted to get that out of the way first, that apartments and FC rooms don't equate a house

I really think you are stretching for evilness and schemes when it's just a by-product of the circumstances. Maybe I'm a blinded simp to SE, but I don't see it. Here's how it went as far as I can tell:
- People wanted houses, so they built houses, and to make it feel like a community, they put a bunch of them in sections called Wards.
- They were/are building off the crappy 1.0 system that wasn't built well in the first place, so the wards were also more optimal and required less space than individual housed instances.
- They only started with a few, not foreseeing them running out as quickly and not anticipating people and FC's buying out whole wards.
- They slowly added more and more wards as server limitations allow, but there still isn't enough, so they come up with the idea of evicting people who literally do not log on an play the game. You can call this scummy or w/e, but why if I was SE, and I had choose between the subbed player wanting a house and the unsubbed player NOT even using their house, would I ever favor in the person who isn't subbed. That makes zero sense.
- Still there is a cry for housing, what can they do that isn't taxing on more and more wards? Apartment! Which by themselves are just the rooms like you have in a house. Again, this makes sense as you can add more of them as they are not restricted by physical land, and probably do not takes as much space as entire wards.
- Of course you can't decorate the outside of an apartment, unless you have a balcony you can't do that irl either. the only point I could argue is maybe give way for gardening inside. I know they have some already with certain flowers and pots if I recall.

Again, you can think of it being big bad SE nickel and diming you, but I see it as the devs having an IDEA of what they thought housing SHOULD be, and trying to play catch-up. You know, like they do for everything new they have ever added ever. The current housing system is too big now to radically change it, they are always adding features, so in the words of the illuminati, "Please look forward to it."

Also not directly you, but I love when people mention the Mogstation. Yoshi-P has absolutely ZERO control over that, he said so himself. That was the deal he struck with S when he took over. He got full control over FFXIV's direction, but the Mogstation was given control to a "scary lady" I think he mentioned in who works for SE. So when crummy Mogstations stuff goes up, that's not Yoshi-P or the devs, that someone in SE looking for their next cash grab, so if you are looking for a villain look there instead of the devs.

[Izar_Chillen]

I really think you are stretching for evilness and schemes when it's just a by-product of the circumstances. Maybe I'm a blinded simp to SE, but I don't see it

If they intended on making the housing system virtual neighbourhoods and not solo instances , like they did do , and not have ill intentions , they would have ensured that they had server space for the large amount of player housing that was inevitably happening due to the vast interest from said player feedback in the first place and not tie the housing plots to a subscription, permanently, and not remove that caveat once said server spaces were fulfilled , which they aren't because they haven't done any server buying just for these housing estates since they added them.


This excuse is it needs to be tied to sub so that it frees up houses for players that want a house over those that have left the game all the whilst hiding the fact they they should have bought the server space to make virtual housing neighbourhoods a non issue and also at the same time coerce those that have a massive amount of sunk costs in their virtual homes to keep subbing or they lose their time and effort in just 45 days of non payment.

[Ixon]

If they intended on making the housing system virtual neighbourhoods and not solo instances , like they did do , and not have ill intentions , they would have ensured that they had server space for the large amount of player housing that was inevitably happening due to the vast interest from said player feedback in the first place and not tie the housing plots to a subscription, permanently, and not remove that caveat once said server spaces were fulfilled , which they aren't because they haven't done any server buying just for these housing estates since they added them.


This excuse is it needs to be tied to sub so that it frees up houses for players that want a house over those that have left the game all the whilst hiding the fact they they should have bought the server space to make virtual housing neighbourhoods a non issue and also at the same time coerce those that have a massive amount of sunk costs in their virtual homes to keep subbing or they lose their time and effort in just 45 days of non payment.

I personally don't think the argument of "just buy more servers lul" is as realistic as people make it out to be. I also don't get where you say they were ever "hiding" anything? And yeah, you don't pay your rent you get evicted. Not sure why this is super far-fetched, though again, maybe it's just me. Like, if they NEVER added new wards or new housing districts then MAYBE I could agree on them being scummy about it. They are even adding in new systems to house buying to ensure people have a fair chance and houses don't all get bought up by the same people, which seems like an anti-scummy move to me.

[Izar_Chillen]

I personally don't think the argument of "just buy more servers lul" is as realistic as people make it out to be. I also don't get where you say they were ever "hiding" anything? And yeah, you don't pay your rent you get evicted. Not sure why this is super far-fetched, though again, maybe it's just me. Like, if they NEVER added new wards or new housing districts then MAYBE I could agree on them being scummy about it. They are even adding in new systems to house buying to ensure people have a fair chance and houses don't all get bought up by the same people, which seems like an anti-scummy move to me.

You even gloss over the fact that they are , once again , throwing new band-aids on top of a now festering wound . There is only one solution to a system that requires much larger server space to alleviate the housing ownership issues . More servers . You shouldn't , if in good faith ,design a system that needs the room to house virtual neighbourhoods and not have the servers to host it all.

They created exclusivity behind a paywall when they didnt need to. Of course it wont change now because people pay up.

[Poporito_Popoto]

You should give your arms a rest after all that water you carry for SqE.

How are your arms doing carrying that grudge?

[Izar_Chillen]

How are your arms doing carrying that grudge?

After a night off I too felt it was unnecessary hostility and removed the last line from that reply - im better than that

Your post was actually helpful . My thanks

[Ixon]

You even gloss over the fact that they are , once again , throwing new band-aids on top of a now festering wound . There is only one solution to a system that requires much larger server space to alleviate the housing ownership issues . More servers . You shouldn't , if in good faith ,design a system that needs the room to house virtual neighbourhoods and not have the servers to host it all.

They created exclusivity behind a paywall when they didnt need to. Of course it wont change now because people pay up.




You should give your arms a rest after all that water you carry for SqE.

Tell you what, you tell me what FFXIV system nailed it correctly on the first try that didn't require years of improvement to get to it's best state? Tell you another, you go back to the 1.0 system and rebuild a game limited by that system from the ground up. You tell me how much server space is required for instances housing for a million people, how many servers you will need for that, what's the cost per server, lay out the oh-so simple plan of action to go from the housing we have now to the housing system you want, and you've got me sold. Because while I am not personally a game dev, I know that circumstances and resources available(both technological and personnel) are the driving force for why things are the way they are. What I find interesting is they didn't create exclusivity behind a paywall because the auto-demolition didn't exist when houses were originally introduced. It was later added as a by product of a housing shortage because it's a hell of a lot easier to kick unsubbed people out than all the leg work for more plots. That's not scummy, that's just using your head. Also, people "pay up" to play the game, housing is just an addition to the game. If you only pay a sub for a house, then maybe you don't like the game, then why would you stay subbed? For a house you could just rebuy later? What you seem to not understand is to add anything to this game, you have to subtract what you COULD add. To spin their dev team for a massive rehaul of the housing system, you would have to take them from any other project they could have been working on in the meantime.

The whole housing situation CAN be better, but you know what helps? Being realistic with and understanding with the current and future state of the game to work towards a solution that makes players happy, and is feasible by the dev team. Anyone can spout "this should be this because I said so and I don't care what it takes", but you get a lot farther by working with the current flow than swimming against. "How dare SE make virtual neighborhoods in an MMO in an effort to cultivate communities, and how dare they not nail it right on the first try and lay an unchanging foundation to last over a decade" gimme a break. Now if they NEVER addressed it and NEVER made strides to make it better, then I'd be in your boat. Though as far as I can tell, they've addressed it, many times, and have made strides to improve it, many times.

[Izar_Chillen]

Though as far as I can tell, they've addressed it, many times, and have made strides to improve it, many times.

All the while not doing what needs to be done. Id be much more understanding if we had any news that they are making the required server space that is needed to house much higher amounts of players with none of this endless plaque board clicking and the loss of the home if you're away too long in their eyes , especially after the recent influx of subscribers the game has had, all the whilst making assurances that they wont hold people hostage by tying the place to a sub once they can house much more potential home owners. I dont think they have ever tried to nor intend to.


Nothing more can make good of the situation and all I see is excuses because they get people keep subbing where as they probably wouldn't if they didn't have the threat of loosing the home . Its understandable from a business perspective , scummy from my point of view.

Keep paying , even if you feel you would like to take longer breaks but dont because of the loss of your house.

Its your money.

[Jojoya]

The whole housing situation CAN be better, but you know what helps? Being realistic with and understanding with the current and future state of the game to work towards a solution that makes players happy, and is feasible by the dev team. Anyone can spout "this should be this because I said so and I don't care what it takes", but you get a lot farther by working with the current flow than swimming against. "How dare SE make virtual neighborhoods in an MMO in an effort to cultivate communities, and how dare they not nail it right on the first try and lay an unchanging foundation to last over a decade" gimme a break. Now if they NEVER addressed it and NEVER made strides to make it better, then I'd be in your boat. Though as far as I can tell, they've addressed it, many times, and have made strides to improve it, many times.

What's realistic can be seen via what other games are doing with their housing. Those games don't seem to have a problem with instanced housing to the point they allow each character to own multiple housing locations as desired.

Wards don't cultivate communities unless players are present in the wards on a regular basis. Unfortunately this is not happening because in the end the majority of players are here to play the other content in the game, not sit outside a house hoping that one of the other 29 owners in the ward might just happen to be online and might just happen to be in the ward instead of doing other content and might just happen to decide to be walking around the right part of the ward instead of sitting at their own house.

Communities can and do form around the RP venues but I suspect for most worlds there are far fewer RP venues active on a daily basis (or even weekly) than the 192 wards/subdivisions we currently have (or the 240 we will have once Ishgard opens).

It's really a shame because wards could have been the best of both worlds - instanced housing within a community neighborhood. Think about apartment buildings - a common area that act as a portal to the individual instanced apartments. Now expand that to the houses in the wards, with each plot placard a portal to the instanced plots that could be within. Players would see each other coming and going, and even be more likely to stay within the ward to talk to those they see instead of quietly disappearing into their house where they may as well not even exist.

I would be interested in knowing what you think they've done over the years to make the ward system better because I'm not seeing it. Demolition, purchase timers, lotteries - those all mitigate flaws in supply design. They don't create a better experience. I'm still in a ward subdivision that has 29 other owners and no matter how often I'm going to a marketboard or the vendors to buy something, it's extremely rare that I run into another player. I can sit in my yard crafting for hours (which I did while working on Expert achievements last expansion) and never see another player passing by.

Where is the community when there's no one around?