Please grow the MMO part of the game. End game is lousy.

[DPZ2]

Yoshi p acted surprised so many people wanted it and it’s like….just how out of touch with their playerbase are they.?

Perhaps the surprise was due to internal statistics regarding how many people actually played through Heaven on High vs Palace of the Dead. If I saw a drop in players accessing a feature that covered two expansions, and I had other things to work on, I too would drop that feature, or at least not continue it into the next expansion.

As for "normally get", remember that ARR was mostly planned out before release, and the amount of work needed to complete it while they were also working on Heavensward was high enough that SE basically delayed the first patch of HW for two months in order to give them a break.

Then there is that slide (comparing 3.3 to 5.3) from the last Live Letter that does much to explain why the developers aren't off chasing things outside of their already plotted plans for 6.x. As always, SE is already starting work on 7.0.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Perhaps the surprise was due to internal statistics regarding how many people actually played through Heaven on High vs Palace of the Dead. If I saw a drop in players accessing a feature that covered two expansions, and I had other things to work on, I too would drop that feature, or at least not continue it into the next expansion.

As for "normally get", remember that ARR was mostly planned out before release, and the amount of work needed to complete it while they were also working on Heavensward was high enough that SE basically delayed the first patch of HW for two months in order to give them a break.

Then there is that slide (comparing 3.3 to 5.3) from the last Live Letter that does much to explain why the developers aren't off chasing things outside of their already plotted plans for 6.x. As always, SE is already starting work on 7.0.

And here is my personal opinion, i think they need to slow their roll and stop planning things so far ahead, when there are major problems with what they release. You’re right, and they’re most likely already planning job changes for 7.0, meanwhile we’re stuck having to deal with the horrible job adjustments released only 2 months ago. If this ends up the same as ShB, it seems they can’t sustain the present, and only keep moving things to the future. While also looking to change things in past content or even reusing past content. See:Unreal trials, which are quite literally just ARR extremes with nothing but more hp and damage. It’s nothing new outside of the mini game. People talk about these things for years and nothing happens. Look at housing. People have complained about it for 6-8 years and it’s only just now getting addressed. All people are asking for is more endgame or even just more diverse end game content.

[MidnightEquinox]

Mmm. I, for one, am very much over peoples' obsession with endgame. MMOs, to me, are about the world and the people in it. There's more to that with finding a group for a dungeon in an old-school way, or in world PvP, than creating a static group of 8/15/whatever hand picked people who are just like you to see a number go up to simulate what's effectively, at that point, just a sports team.

But I think forced grouping content kind of died out over time because it's nearly impossible for developers to manage it in a way that's healthy for their playerbase, there are too many bad incentives. It worked back when MMOs were relatively niche, streamers weren't much of a thing, and people were incentivized to learn the game with others at a pace that was sane. And in large part, these things happened specifically not at endgame. Endgame is often where the MMO goes to die.

So I'm not really surprised with devs moving to soloification and disentangling reliance. Especially when people are increasingly audibly angry at players that they perceive to be insufficiently skilled.

In-game, at least, on my server, everyone seems quite happy with the available content, including some people who have terrifying amounts of gametime.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Mmm. I, for one, am very much over peoples' obsession with endgame. MMOs, to me, are about the world and the people in it. There's more to that with finding a group for a dungeon in an old-school way, or in world PvP, than creating a static group of 8/15/whatever hand picked people who are just like you to see a number go up to simulate what's effectively, at that point, just a sports team.

But I think forced grouping content kind of died out over time because it's nearly impossible for developers to manage it in a way that's healthy for their playerbase, there are too many bad incentives. It worked back when MMOs were relatively niche, streamers weren't much of a thing, and people were incentivized to learn the game with others at a pace that was sane. And in large part, these things happened specifically not at endgame. Endgame is often where the MMO goes to die.

So I'm not really surprised with devs moving to soloification and disentangling reliance. Especially when people are increasingly audibly angry at players that they perceive to be insufficiently skilled.

In-game, at least, on my server, everyone seems quite happy with the available content, including some people who have terrifying amounts of gametime.

I mean i agree with it being about the world and the people in it. Problem is overworld is dead and offers very little incentive to return to it after msq, and people wise most people nowadays turn to discord reddit or twitter for their interactions or in game content. The game doesn’t offer that much in terms of getting people together. Everything is done through duty finder. The difference between 14 and other mmo’s is 14 heavily places emphasis on the msq. You can’t get to endgame without going through msq, 90% of content is locked behind it. There’s hardly any in game help for learning jobs as well. The devs seem to only care about the story and that’s it, all other content be damned. Which i mean hey, they only gotta put in some effort for the msq, everything else they can wing it.

[Ixon]

I mean i agree with it being about the world and the people in it. Problem is overworld is dead and offers very little incentive to return to it after msq, and people wise most people nowadays turn to discord reddit or twitter for their interactions or in game content. The game doesn’t offer that much in terms of getting people together. Everything is done through duty finder. The difference between 14 and other mmo’s is 14 heavily places emphasis on the msq. You can’t get to endgame without going through msq, 90% of content is locked behind it. There’s hardly any in game help for learning jobs as well. The devs seem to only care about the story and that’s it, all other content be damned. Which i mean hey, they only gotta put in some effort for the msq, everything else they can wing it.

- Hunt boards, Hunt trains, Fate grinding for bicolor gemstones, side quests, and treasure maps are there for the over world.
- Yes, it's easier to talk on social media than in game, but that's true for I think every game out there?
- The first point gets people together, and there are a ton of community ran events. Unsure what else you want in this specifically this game that isn't a failed item from another game? And if you want to talk about this game not getting people together, go to the numerous RP events. Were you there for "Chi in 5min"? Never seen so many people in one spot in my life.
- Yes, this game is very much about MSQ, because this game cares a LOT about it's story. If that's not your style than this for sure isn't the game for you lol.
- "All other content be damned", it's like you didn't even see the last live letter. PVP(That I actually enjoy), alliance raids, new PotD/HoH, savage 4-man dungeons, new relic quests, Ultimate's, Island sanctuary, return of Hildebrand quest line, Tataru's quest(whatever that is, probably a crafter/gatherer thing), beast tribes. The content is there, even if you turn a blind eye to it and even if it's not all dumped at the beginning of the expansion.

Like I have said. A lot of people enjoy the story driven game. A lot of people enjoy the pacing. Could it be better? Of course, but please don't try to force this game to be another game that it's not, otherwise we would all be playing that game.

[KizuyaKatogami]

- Hunt boards, Hunt trains, Fate grinding for bicolor gemstones, side quests, and treasure maps are there for the over world.
- Yes, it's easier to talk on social media than in game, but that's true for I think every game out there?
- The first point gets people together, and there are a ton of community ran events. Unsure what else you want in this specifically this game that isn't a failed item from another game? And if you want to talk about this game not getting people together, go to the numerous RP events. Were you there for "Chi in 5min"? Never seen so many people in one spot in my life.
- Yes, this game is very much about MSQ, because this game cares a LOT about it's story. If that's not your style than this for sure isn't the game for you lol.
- "All other content be damned", it's like you didn't even see the last live letter. PVP(That I actually enjoy), alliance raids, new PotD/HoH, savage 4-man dungeons, new relic quests, Ultimate's, Island sanctuary, return of Hildebrand quest line, Tataru's quest(whatever that is, probably a crafter/gatherer thing), beast tribes. The content is there, even if you turn a blind eye to it and even if it's not all dumped at the beginning of the expansion.

Like I have said. A lot of people enjoy the story driven game. A lot of people enjoy the pacing. Could it be better? Of course, but please don't try to force this game to be another game that it's not, otherwise we would all be playing that game.

??? No one is trying to force the game to be another game. They’re asking for more endgame. The game is making record profits, they can afford it. Yes all that content was spoken about in the live letter. Is it out yet though? No it’s not. Deep dungeon if it follows the trend won’t be out for a year. Relic quests won’t be until august. The content isn’t there atm, and just because they say it’s coming doesn’t mean it actually is. It’s an mmo, not just an rpg, they need to start acting like it. Not everyone is going to enjoy the story/writing decisions the writers make.

[Shurrikhan]

Do we just go and tell anyone who wants a platform-style mode in game to go play something else rather than expanding the game itself?

Do we just go and tell anyone who truly want a Romance mode in game to go play something else rather than expanding the game itself?

Do we just go and tell anyone who wants to turn this game into <insert favorite MMORPG here> to go play something else rather than expanding the game itself?

When they're incohesive with what could naturally be extended from the given game, yes.

But let's not forget what was being asked for here to already be met with "well, go play something else":

• More fixtures of RP, especially in making a character of/for ourselves beyond just the scope of our silent emote responses in the MSQ.
• Things that make us want to go out into the (semi-) open world with other people and do social things, ideally beyond just the carrot and stick of relic grinds and hunts.
• More widely available housing that isn't demolished if we want to take time off for more than 44 days at a time.

Of those, only the last isn't what we'd already have expected from an MMORPG.

[MidnightEquinox]

I don't find the overworld that dead. I mean, I'm in ARR areas half the time for crying out loud and there are plenty of people there still doing random stuff. I've played WoW and I'd often be the only person around for miles in old areas. So I don't think it's that bad.

I don't think I've seen a game help other people socialize outside of forced grouping since....... SWG cantinas. It's not an easy problem. Too much dependence generates friction. Developers don't want to spend their time designing a mini-government I bet. I personally get a lot of mileage out of NN but of course that's not accessible to everyone.

[MPNZ]

This is nice video on the subject of solo-play https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2l2ZxNhCSg

In terms of end game: it would totally suck to enforce any more gated content like tombs and beast tribes, which results in wasting their players time through unnecessary padding than is actually necessary. They could implement more explorer content like Xenoblade's playground overworlds or anything that like teaches the lore or the current world's societies and businesses like in Final Fantasy Tactics, or Xenosaga, or Star Ocean till the end of Time ingame encyclopedias which I really adored. I really like the Voidsent doll maker stuff from the lore and the little quotes the hid in them are really nice touches. Voidsent BT quests using models based on the minions available could be really fun

Incresing the number, options, features, and size of apartments would also be a total game changer. Imagine what you could do with like flush walls, terraces, parking, and twice the space to decorate with

[DPZ2]

And here is my personal opinion, i think they need to slow their roll and stop planning things so far ahead, when there are major problems with what they release. You’re right, and they’re most likely already planning job changes for 7...

When I said they're already working on 7.0, it wasn't a reference to job changes. That's the last bit of change incorporated into any expansion, not the first.

What things might SE be working on right now?

Story line
Concept art for new zones/major characters/dungeon instances, etc.
Plotting the next series of raids and story dungeons

"Slow their roll and stop planning things so far ahead" is really bad advice for an MMORPG, unless you're asking them to spend an extra two years before the next expansion comes out.