What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[AnotherPerson]

The previous Fandaniel hadn't stepped down yet and I doubt he'd return to the star knowing there was an impending global crisis on the horizon. Hermes also wasn't the only scholar in his field. The game didn't provide sufficient proof that he was at all integral to the creation of Zodiark. Elidibus only credits him with discovering the stagnation, which Venat could have told them to look for instead.

As a result, we don't know if Zodiark was needed because they didn't know or have the opportunity to prepare. They could have come up with an alternate solution and, even if not, Zodiark could've been created before the Final Days had decimated the world to the point where the only aether to use for him was from Amaurotine sacrifices.

Also, the Final Days wasn't a test, it was a condemnation. No one was ever going to or arguably even meant to pass that test. Had the Final Days 2.0 been given more time to ravage the sundered world I'd guarantee you it would've ended up similarly to the original with the remaining inhabitants willing to do whatever it took to make it stop and return to normal. People act as if Meteion was ever going to be swayed by the people of Etheirys changing. It'd been 12k years and they were still turning into blasphemies. Sundering and millennia of suffering and despair had done jack to save Etheirys. It was always going to come down to the WoL, groomed and given every advantage possible, to defeat Meteion or flee the star.

Well.. that's the problem. In the quest "The Greatest Contribution" Emet states that in the Fourteen, there's no one who specializes in the Celestial. That means the previous Fandaniel has no knowledge or skill in aetherology or dynamis like Hermes does. In that regard, the previous Fandaniel would not have been able to forestall the Final Days as they couldn't pinpoint what was causing it. Only Hermes was able to deduce the effects was a result of stagnant aether currents by viewing the aether currents based on his research in the study of aetherology.

So no, the previous Fandaniel wouldn't be able to do anything that the current Fandaniel could have in relation to figuring out how to Forestall the Final Days.

It's easy to say Venat can come with an alternate solution - but the alternate solution is to really go and stop Meteion - who already flew outside of Etheriys and the ancients had no way of actually approaching her due to the lack of technological advancement as the Ancient's sole focus & concepts was always been developing life on the star, not travel to distant stars, and definitely not to the corner of the Universe.

You are right to say it is a condemnation - but that's because the means to pass the test was beyond the Ancients due to being too stubborn to change their ways and accept that their world wasn't perfect, which was why they failed. Meteion has already seen civilizations similar to theirs heading towards the same route, which would render their 'life' meaningless. Accepting their flaws is the first step to creating a new answer for Meteion, which can lead to a new solution. However, the precursor requires the ancients to not go down the path that other dead civilizations have tried - trying to achieve perfection & bliss of the star.

A calamity like this happened to the Eorzea in the present, but rather than be condemned, we looked at it as a way to prove to Meteion that our right to exist is just as valid during our time. For us, we took on all the failures of other stars and still overcame her despair. This is the difference in outlook to the question "What gives meaning to life?"

And in the end, Meteion did get swayed by the people of Etheriys changing. It was pretty much the plot point of the Endwalkers cutscene when the WoL shares their experience to her.. she learned death and suffering will come to everyone and no one can live a life free from sorrow, but it's how we make the most of our lives during our time, which is what gives the meaning to life. Thus, did she decide to sing a final song to give birth to new life instead of singing the song of oblivion.

[Sicno]

Well.. that's the problem. In the quest "The Greatest Contribution" Emet states that in the Fourteen, there's no one who specializes in the Celestial. That means the previous Fandaniel has no knowledge or skill in aetherology or dynamis like Hermes does. In that regard, the previous Fandaniel would not have been able to forestall the Final Days as they couldn't pinpoint what was causing it. Only Hermes was able to deduce the effects was a result of stagnant aether currents by viewing the aether currents based on his research in the study of aetherology.

So no, the previous Fandaniel wouldn't be able to do anything that the current Fandaniel could have in relation to figuring out how to Forestall the Final Days.

This is only if you go the route of patching up the celestial currents. We've discussed this here before, but among the things we know about calvinball dynamis is that it can't affect aether of a certain density, that's why Meteion couldn't affect the ancients themselves, only their creations and other less dense lifeforms. The correlation with the stagnation of the celestial currents was the only thing they could find in the dark that worked, without knowing the actual cause of the problem.

At the beginning of our visit Hermes commented in the presence of Emet and Hythlodaeus that aether trumps dynamis, that knowledge is already a good starting point in finding solutions if the ancients were even half the scholars and researchers they were depicted as.

It's easy to say Venat can come with an alternate solution

It's not that she needed to find a solution HERSELF, and completely by herself. What we could have expected from her was simply to warn their kind about the situation so that then they could put their collective minds together to work on a solution.

"Oh but they wouldn't have believed her" - Well she has the echo to show things to people. Also remember she gave us a crystal with the tracing data on Meteion? She could have shown that to others. Also Emet already gave enough merit once to our ludicrous story to deem it worth of investigation because it could concern the safety of the star.

"Oh but Hermes would have opposed her" - And? We have no idea how they handled things like crime, but if the events of Elpis would have been made public I don't see why they wouldn't have forced him to cooperate and share his knowledge, considering their survival was now uncertain.

You are right to say it is a condemnation - but that's because the means to pass the test was beyond the Ancients due to being too stubborn to change their ways and accept that their world wasn't perfect, which was why they failed.


A calamity like this happened to the Eorzea in the present, but rather than be condemned, we looked at it as a way to prove to Meteion that our right to exist is just as valid during our time. For us, we took on all the failures of other stars and still overcame her despair. This is the difference in outlook to the question "What gives meaning to life?"

The "test" didn't even matter. The sundered didn't behave better than the ancients. Just look around everywhere in the world, all the atrocities perpetrated, the lack of regard for others' lives, all the wars, the genocide, the subjugation, etc. (all things our dearest "Mother" allowed to happen btw) and in the end the real reason we were able to reach Meteion and defeat her was because we just happened to have the one time traveler who was there when things went to hell and who deigned to share their findings. Only THEN someone could do something about it. Wow, an incredible "test", 10000% the sundered are better than the ancients.

[Lauront]

This is only if you go the route of patching up the celestial currents. We've discussed this here before, but among the things we know about calvinball dynamis is that it can't affect aether of a certain density, that's why Meteion couldn't affect the ancients themselves, only their creations and other less dense lifeforms. The correlation with the stagnation of the celestial currents was the only thing they could find in the dark that worked, without knowing the actual cause of the problem.

At the beginning of our visit Hermes commented in the presence of Emet and Hythlodaeus that aether trumps dynamis, that knowledge is already a good starting point in finding solutions if the ancients were even half the scholars and researchers they were depicted as.

And to add to this, it is scholars in the plural (known from the Watcher) who were credited with discovering the celestial current method. Not just Hermes.

[Sicno]

And to add to this, it is scholars in the plural (known from the Watcher) who were credited with discovering the celestial current method. Not just Hermes.

Yeah, and even if that wasn't the case just knowing something "exists" already speeds up research on it tremendously as an uncertain, accidental discovery is no longer required and is replaced by conscious efforts, theorizing and trial and error.

Having other researchers already be initiated in the concept would speed things up even more and it's entirely possible that dynamis research would have gone viral. But no, it was kept a secret as the world fell to ruin.

[Rulakir]

You are right to say it is a condemnation - but that's because the means to pass the test was beyond the Ancients due to being too stubborn to change their ways and accept that their world wasn't perfect, which was why they failed.

Sicno already covered the rest of it, but what we see of the Ancients outside of the Zodiark Cultist Strawmen group in the post-Elpis cutscene doesn't support this. The unsundered, in particular, changed a lot in the aftermath of the sundering. Bearing in mind that the Ancients didn't know what caused the Final Days and thought that they were safe after Zodiark stopped them. What reason were they given that they needed to change?

And in the end, Meteion did get swayed by the people of Etheriys changing. It was pretty much the plot point of the Endwalkers cutscene when the WoL shares their experience to her.. she learned death and suffering will come to everyone and no one can live a life free from sorrow, but it's how we make the most of our lives during our time, which is what gives the meaning to life.

This was post defeat and Meteion was seemingly dying at that point (since she says we're her final encounter). It was more of a, "Now that I've kicked your ass so you're forced to listen to me, here's why you were wrong all this time." :P It's not like she was monitoring Etheirys, she'd already made her decision and was following through on it. I also hated that scene because if we'd just held hands with her in Elpis the whole thing could've been avoided. >_> (Don't get me started on the time loop, another thing I absolutely hated about EW. Should've done an alternate timeline like ShB.)