<MATERIA> First-Come First-Served AND Lottery Plots

[Damptoe]

Housing is a nice tool but it's not needed to "kickstart" a community (not to mention that wards inevitably end up dead unless there are a couple of free companies present with members coming and going, or running the RP venues.

While it's got an economic role it can play via sale of housing furnishings, what your economy really needs is an infusion of players ready to spend gil on your marketboards. You're not going to get much of an economic boost if the only players who can afford to buy are the ones who are also doing the selling. All those level 30 characters getting a million gil aren't helping much if they were abandoned as soon as they hit 30 because the player was really after the free game time.

The housing process is already painfully long. The lottery isn't going to make it any worse. The real obstacle is players needing to wait for 6.1 when they're ready to purchase now.

It plays a role in kickstarting the community simply by giving people a little more to do. OCE has an entire section of the game locked out at the moment, so I just login to do roulettes and check out. When housing is available, you spend more time fiddling around with your house, jumping around your ward aimlessly and FC chatting (my favourite activity in the game), looking at houses, and you can participate in the RP events (I didn't). There isn't much community if people aren't logged in in the first place, ignoring the obvious benefits that the housing system has in general for building community.

I don't get how having more items that sell isn't going to help the economy? There will be demand for furniture where there is currently none, so players will start to spend gil. Money from players selling furniture will go into buying other items for a healthier economy. Having gil change hands more frequently is how you kickstart an economy. The players that can afford to buy won't be the only ones that will be selling. Where is that even the case when furniture is one of the easiest items to craft? What do the level 30 characters have to do with it? Those players are gone, but there are still real OCE players remaining here which is what all of this applies to and the whole point of this thread.

The housing process is not painfully long for fresh wards. You go up to a house and click the placard once. If you fail, you try again with another one with no delay. There will be 7200 plots opened all at once and many of them will remain open past the first week with our current population. With the lottery, you need to wait for days and get locked out from buying a backup house. Players will have their housing funds locked up there for however long it takes to retry again and again with the lottery. They will delay their spending on furniture simply because of inventory constraints. And for what benefit?

I don't get why other regions are so invested in making our unique situation conform to theirs.

[Jojoya]

It plays a role in kickstarting

[snip the middle]

I don't get why other regions are so invested in making our unique situation conform to theirs.

Adding one more thing to do isn't a "kickstart". If your argument is that it's nice for the community to have more options for interacting, I can get behind that. But your communities are by no means dead right now just because you can't get housing and only housing is going to kickstart them to life.

I didn't deny that housing plays an economic role. What I pointed out is that you need to players ready to spend and it sounds like right now you mostly have players ready to sell. The economy isn't going to go anywhere if everyone is trying to sell with few buyers.

Why do the rest of us care? Your situation might well be ours in 5 months when new worlds are added to the EU data centers or in 6 months when the new NA data center with 4 new worlds open. That's why many of us are invested.

We want to see a system that is as fair as possible. Fairness will almost always end up inconvenient for those few lucky enough to have real life advantage so they're able to jump on an opportunity because it doesn't interfere with any real life obligations. That's one thing that's different about SE compared to many game developers - they understand that real life is also important to their players and take that into account when designing systems.

[Shibi]

Why do the rest of us care? Your situation might well be ours in 5 months when new worlds are added to the EU data centers or in 6 months when the new NA data center with 4 new worlds open. That's why many of us are invested.

No, your situation on NA is very different. You will have full 100% cross DC travel including access to legacy servers with a heavily established economy.

OC is completely isolated. Housing now helps our economy settle.

You will have people who will transfer as geared EW endgamers with millions, and without starting from scratch.

Most of us started again, leaving our old selves behind. A smaller number, a few thousand, transferred, but run round Limsa and mostly see sprouts.

If your new server runs out of onions, no biggy, just zoom over to Coerl, or Faerie.

If we run out of onions, that's it.

The situations are completely different. You should have zero investment in how we do it, because how you do it in a years time will be different.

[Damptoe]

Adding one more thing to do isn't a "kickstart". If your argument is that it's nice for the community to have more options for interacting, I can get behind that. But your communities are by no means dead right now just because you can't get housing and only housing is going to kickstart them to life.

I didn't deny that housing plays an economic role. What I pointed out is that you need to players ready to spend and it sounds like right now you mostly have players ready to sell. The economy isn't going to go anywhere if everyone is trying to sell with few buyers.

Why do the rest of us care? Your situation might well be ours in 5 months when new worlds are added to the EU data centers or in 6 months when the new NA data center with 4 new worlds open. That's why many of us are invested.

We want to see a system that is as fair as possible. Fairness will almost always end up inconvenient for those few lucky enough to have real life advantage so they're able to jump on an opportunity because it doesn't interfere with any real life obligations. That's one thing that's different about SE compared to many game developers - they understand that real life is also important to their players and take that into account when designing systems.

If you're going to argue over semantics, then sure whatever.

The point is that players will be ready to spend when they have reason to and don't have to hold onto unusable items with limited inventory space, which will create more players ready to spend on other items.

NA and EU's new data centres can use the lottery if they want. There are 4 states in the US with a comparable population to the countries that make up our region. Our situation is unique, which is why there is demand for FCFS for the housing release. I think most people in this thread are asking for some common sense to be applied in deciding what system is used on what data centres. The lottery system has very few benefits here.

[Jojoya]

You will have full 100% cross DC travel including access to legacy servers with a heavily established economy.

This is a good point I didn't think about.

On the other hand, being able to start growing Thavnairian Onions one week sooner isn't going to make a long term difference in supply for your data center. Those of you who left your old selves behind still have the opportunity to transfer them, along with any needed items in short supply. As long as your worlds have the New status, those transfers will be free.

Don't get me wrong -I'd love for SE to reconsider and open housing for you sooner instead of forcing you to wait until 6.1. The issue is simply one of whether it should be FCFS or lottery, and that comes down to what is fair. FCFS favors those who can log in when the servers come online so they get the most desirable plots and those who can't are left with the trash plots to pick over. That is not a fair system.

Also, re: the data center travel issue - I hope SE considers linking Materia to one of the other regions when data center travel is initiated since it is new and otherwise isolated.

The point is that players will be ready to spend when they have reason to and don't have to hold onto unusable items with limited inventory space, which will create more players ready to spend on other items.

If their inventories are already filled up with the housing items they want to use then they don't need to buy them so it doesn't benefit your economies, does it?

They should have been smart and filled up their inventories with items that are immediately useful instead of filling them up with items easily replaced and useless for at least a couple of months - SE made no secret about when they intended to open housing on Materia. Obviously keeping any seasonal event/mogstation housing items would have made sense but the rest is just deadweight when housing isn't available.

Like I said above, I'd love to see your housing opened sooner instead of later. The issue is whether FCFS should be used or lottery. FCFS is an inherently unfair system in a game that operates 24/7 while the majority of the player base doesn't have the option to play 24/7 due to real life obligation.

Waiting an extra week so distribution of housing ends up fair is not going to harm your communities or economies.

[Shibi]

On the other hand, being able to start growing Thavnairian Onions one week sooner isn't going to make a long term difference in supply for your data center. Those of you who left your old selves behind still have the opportunity to transfer them, along with any needed items in short supply. As long as your worlds have the New status, those transfers will be free.

Onions are just a small part of this that I use as the example, and you should realise it.

On your future new NA worlds, if they stop all housing for 3 months at the start, people who want to RP in a bar can just head off to Balmung with intra-DC-travel. On OC, no RP in bars, housing is locked out.

On your future new NA worlds, if they stop housing for 3 months at the start, people who want to make furniture and decorate can stay on their old worlds without penalty until housing is opened, then transfer over, no problem. We can't do this, we need to pull up roots completely for 3 months, or start anew and grind up our FC rank, and GC rank.

On your future new NA worlds, you have the chance to head over to any server, so don't need to leave all your friends behind. On OC we need to restart a new community, merging JP and NA playstyles, not having housing ties less people here. We need the people, but for that, we need access to all the perks of housing.

On your future new NA worlds, you will mostly have EW players who transfer. While on OC we mosly have sprouts who have left their EW mains on the old datacentres. You can't begin to imagine the disruption in this one.

Many more differences too.

What you will see in NA will be completely different to what we are experiencing now. And really, your investment in our data centre just warps what we need for no good purpose. It won't change what happens in NA in a years time.

We need housing in the old cities opened now, to make a community, to allow roleplay, to stock the marketboard, to let people decorate, to stimulate the economy and more.

Heck even to free up houses on NA. A lot of people, like me, have their old mains with house still idle and unused on NA, because no houses on OC, so no way I am giving that up yet. Have a house on OC and there is less need to keep on on NA. I'd likely give up my NA house as soon as I get an OC house, and that means a NA player can have it.

Old cities now needs to be FCFS as it's prior to 6.1, lottery doesn't exist yet, and that's fine, we just need the housing unlocked NOW. Ishgard for 6.1 can be lottery as in all data centres, we don't seek special rules there.

Worry about your future NA servers please, and stop trying to set your direction on the OC servers please, because what you will see in a years time with DC travel allowed will be completely different to us.

Edit: Transfer stuff over, you say. Meh, I would, Aether is locked to new alts, No mules left. and that doesn't address the bulk of the need, just shortages in garden and FC workshop.

[LunaFancy]

I hope that if a SE representative sees this thread they make a note of the fact that the people against Materia data centre having FCFS aren't even ON Materia worlds, and summarily discount them due to their complete lack of relevance to the situation.

You know what they say about opinions and a specific part of the human anatomy, right? Just because you have one, doesn't mean you should wave it around in places where you have no vested interest. Especially when you have clearly got little to no understanding of the specifics of the geographical area the data centre services.

There is absolutely no accessibility reason to make all the wards in Materia lottery, there is a limited variance in the time zones across the area, from East to the West the variance is four hours, North to South is more like two hours at most - the servers will be going up in prime time so nobody is missing out because of time zones. If you want housing you have enough time to sort your schedule to be there when the servers open.

The chances of there being a log in queue at all is limited to Ravana and MAYBE Sophia. So that's not an issue.

And yes, most of us will not really have to worry about getting the house we want because of the low population - with FCFS that is. As it stands if more than one of us lots on the same plot then we have to wait for the lottery to go off, then wait for the next lottery to enter then rinse and repeat. All while wards are standing empty.

I don't understand the reasoning of NA people coming in using arguments based on their own data centre circumstances that bear no resemblance to the reality of the new Materia data centre on the other side of the world. Especially when they aren't even on the data centre in question.

If people who actually play with their mains on Materia want FCFS, then I think that counts for more than the opinions of people who aren't even on the data centre in the first place. 50/50 lottery and FCFS should be the very least they do with the old wards.

[Damptoe]

If their inventories are already filled up with the housing items they want to use then they don't need to buy them so it doesn't benefit your economies, does it?

They should have been smart and filled up their inventories with items that are immediately useful instead of filling them up with items easily replaced and useless for at least a couple of months - SE made no secret about when they intended to open housing on Materia. Obviously keeping any seasonal event/mogstation housing items would have made sense but the rest is just deadweight when housing isn't available.

Like I said above, I'd love to see your housing opened sooner instead of later. The issue is whether FCFS should be used or lottery. FCFS is an inherently unfair system in a game that operates 24/7 while the majority of the player base doesn't have the option to play 24/7 due to real life obligation.

Waiting an extra week so distribution of housing ends up fair is not going to harm your communities or economies.

I'm not saying their inventories are filled up with housing items right now. I'm saying they're not going to start spending on housing items until they have a house to dump them in because of inventory constraints. Lotteries will just delay that while people are locked up in the process to get a house and failing, when they could have just bought another one already with FCFS.

NA and EU can keep their lotteries. We promise we won't make you adopt our upside down ways.

[Jojoya]

Onions are just a small part of this that I use as the example, and you should realise it.

I'm sorry but what other items that can only be obtained through housing have such a significant impact on game play that having access a week sooner because SE went FCFS instead of Lottery will make a substantial difference?

Workshop RNG is so crazy at times that starting a workshop one week sooner is not going to make a difference. Any early advantage will get canceled out when RNG goes sour later.

Furniture is a non-issue because it can be produced on demand. There's no need to stockpile it or even the materials to make it (outside of what comes off timed nodes and not many of those are needed) in advance.

No one has to leave their friends behind because we're free to create characters on every data center. I might not be able to do every single bit of content with my friends on other data centers but I'm still able to visit and do at least some content.

Again if the concern is that SE is waiting too long to even open housing, I'm with you 100%. It's needed sooner. Six weeks after a world is opened is more than long enough for players and FCs to get established to a minimum level needed to obtain housing.

That's not what is in question. The issue is FCFS versus lottery. You are not going to suffer just because you have to wait a few extra days for a lottery to happen.

I'm not saying their inventories are filled up with housing items right now. I'm saying they're not going to start spending on housing items until they have a house to dump them in because of inventory constraints. Lotteries will just delay that while people are locked up in the process to get a house and failing, when they could have just bought another one already with FCFS.

NA and EU can keep their lotteries. We promise we won't make you adopt our upside down ways.

And the lottery probably is not going to delay anything more than a week longer while in the meantime giving all players a fair chance to get a plot they want instead of the majority of premium plots going to RMT with the rest going to those who have the real life privilege of being able to log in when the servers come online.

But fine, let RMT have immediate and near total control over the best housing in your data center. Not my problem, right?

[Damptoe]

But fine, let RMT have immediate and near total control over the best housing in your data center. Not my problem, right?

Exactly, not your problem nor ours if we get FCFS. Players will outrun a dumb bot easily and I wish them luck in getting a good return on a resource that will still be widely available for many weeks after the initial release. Imaginary RMT can't hurt you.