Devs, please make job crystals in lv 31+ content mandatory.

[SenorPatty]

The simplest solution is simply have dgns detect if you have a job stone or not. You don't have it, you don't get in. You can bypass this with premade or unsync just like you can now but otherwise, a hard no-entry can suffice.

[zcrash970]

I think that this is very rare. I've done nearly 10,000 dungeons, trials and raids and not seen it done intentionally.

Even if it happens, it only affects the potency of their attacks. The gear is what really matters for calculating the base damage that this potency uses and the gear should be intact whether a stone is equipped or not. It's going to be akin to someone doing their rotation poorly.

Happened to me 4 times since 6.0 launched.

A CNJ in Tower of Babel
GLD in the lvl85 dungeon
ACN in Zot
And a ARC in the atherical sea

I don't even run that many dungeons. Maybe roulettes every now and but I'll be the first to admit that my luck with DF group is absolute shit.

It's just not potency, it's literally more than 60% of your skills.

[SnowVix]

Well, let's break up the circlejerk a little, shall we? You'd only force that bard job stone in my hands over my cold dead body. Archer is the bow job I always loved and I'm not trading it for some "we got real sad so we started playing music on our bowstrings" weirdness.

Now, to adress the practical concerns. Being bad at the game and having your team carry you isn't a bannable offense. Actually it's exactly the opposite - Yoshida himself admits that they design casual content in a way where a couple good players can carry the rest. I can do the carrying and have done so many times. But sometimes it's nice to kick back and relax. I'm yet to be in an Alliance Raid where I was the lowest DPS on Archer. If we were to genuinely start banning players who are bad, we'd run out of population very soon.

Classes are too deeply engrained into the basis of the game that their removal would be a difficult and pointless task. Again, Yoshida stated as much himself.

In the content where it does matter - what SE considers High-End content - you actually can't bring classes. Real shame btw, I'd love to see how confused fflogs would be with an archer log. But I digress. We can conclude that SE does have ability to limit duties to "Jobs of Disciples of War/Magic". Allowing classes into casual content is intentional. Deal with it.

It's not a "circlejerk", classes literally get nothing after 50 and there is a reason that expansion jobs don't have base classes. They're a legacy from 1.x, and anyone who intentionally queues an alliance raid in standard duty finder without their jobstone is actively griefing the 23 other players.

[Johners]

ok. what do we do about arcanist?

Arcanist evolves into Summoner and then Scholar becomes a separate level 30 job you can unlock after getting Arcanist to level 30. Only downside is they won't level together but that's fine IMHO.

[Saraide]

Does it matter if the end result is the same? I can show up to Copied Factory and spam Ture Thrust on DRG and that's completely fine. But somehow just being an Archer (that does more damage than the lowest DPS in the party) is such an issue?



I'm not sure how is Arcanist relevant to this. As I said, they already have a system that prevents classes from entering certain duties. They could have easily applied it to every duty past level 30. But they didn't. And if you think that completely reworking the very foundation of combat system and a dozen of class quests to remove a working system that doesn't really cause any significant issues is worhtwile... well, Director and Producer himself seems to disagree with you.



I'd personally lose and entire power fantasy I enjoy. And have it replaced with one I utterly despise. Pretty big deal, tbh.

This may sound obvious to some but intent matters. If someone accidentally steps on your toes that's different than someone stepping on your toes and then saying it was fully intentional. Refusing to equip the job stone is intentionally contributing less, not because you are bad at the job or distracted or tired or anything but just because you didnt feel like contributing as much.

[Axxion]

they might be doing these "challenges"

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/445191

[xxmiamorecadenza]

Arcanist evolves into Summoner and then Scholar becomes a separate level 30 job you can unlock after getting Arcanist to level 30. Only downside is they won't level together but that's fine IMHO.

It genuinely irks me that they level together. SCH is the only class I have a super weak grasp on because I had to pick either it or SMN to level organically from 30 to 90.

[Saraide]

they might be doing these "challenges"

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/445191

People like that are really just trying to throw sand into people's eyes. There is no desire to have challenging yourself, there is just a desire to get carried. Going without jobstone into DF isnt putting a challenge on yourself, it's removing it from yourself and instead offloading it onto others. If people like that were honest, they would do it in PF only with other people who are also not equipping their jobstones. Not there is any real challenge to it in the first place, you're just having less options, less tools and no real rotation. You are lowering the skill ceiling, not raising the skill floor.

[Jijifli]

I think that this is very rare. I've done nearly 10,000 dungeons, trials and raids and not seen it done intentionally.

Even if it happens, it only affects the potency of their attacks. The gear is what really matters for calculating the base damage that this potency uses and the gear should be intact whether a stone is equipped or not. It's going to be akin to someone doing their rotation poorly.

It doesn't need to be 'common' to be a problem.

Originally leveling dungeons didn't have Ilvl checks for hw+ dungeons. What happened was you'd get people who queue'd in with heavily outdated gear and would do 0 dps and get 1 shotted by the first roomwide, even with shields. Nobody finds that fun to deal with, but it took Square an entire 4 years to do anything about it. Why? Because a bunch of people were responding to anything about it with "Well I never ever encountered this." Which, ya, great, you never did. I did. Quite a few times in fact. It really puts a sour taste in my mouth, and that includes people intentionally not wearing their job stone, gimping themself out of multiple skills, while not actually 'adding challenge' like most would say because you can just get carried through.

It's also that players who tend to do this intentionally are also players who, from my experience, are very self centered. A friend of mine even experienced this while doing ShB story, got a gld in the 73 trial who decided to throw a huge hissy fit and force pull the boss instantly, then make sure we wipe to ads, and pull asap again on wipe to avoid kick. It completely took him out of the immersion he had, and the difficulty of removing the problem became worse and worse. Could he acted like that as a PLD too? Sure, but like I said, it seems the vast majority of people running no job stone are also generally selfish and rude at any indication that they should be wearing it.

[Azuri]

This may sound obvious to some but intent matters. If someone accidentally steps on your toes that's different than someone stepping on your toes and then saying it was fully intentional. Refusing to equip the job stone is intentionally contributing less, not because you are bad at the job or distracted or tired or anything but just because you didnt feel like contributing as much.

I don't see the difference. Plenty show up to DF runs just to be carried. This is my little way to escape the role of Yoshida's pony for carrying the baddies. As a good player I'm not obliged to carry every time. Sometimes it's relaxing to sandbag a bit too.