Devs, please make job crystals in lv 31+ content mandatory.

[Azuri]

Well, let's break up the circlejerk a little, shall we? You'd only force that bard job stone in my hands over my cold dead body. Archer is the bow job I always loved and I'm not trading it for some "we got real sad so we started playing music on our bowstrings" weirdness.

Now, to adress the practical concerns. Being bad at the game and having your team carry you isn't a bannable offense. Actually it's exactly the opposite - Yoshida himself admits that they design casual content in a way where a couple good players can carry the rest. I can do the carrying and have done so many times. But sometimes it's nice to kick back and relax. I'm yet to be in an Alliance Raid where I was the lowest DPS on Archer. If we were to genuinely start banning players who are bad, we'd run out of population very soon.

Classes are too deeply engrained into the basis of the game that their removal would be a difficult and pointless task. Again, Yoshida stated as much himself.

In the content where it does matter - what SE considers High-End content - you actually can't bring classes. Real shame btw, I'd love to see how confused fflogs would be with an archer log. But I digress. We can conclude that SE does have ability to limit duties to "Jobs of Disciples of War/Magic". Allowing classes into casual content is intentional. Deal with it.

[Johners]

Well, let's break up the circlejerk a little, shall we? You'd only force that bard job stone in my hands over my cold dead body. Archer is the bow job I always loved and I'm not trading it for some "we got real sad so we started playing music on our bowstrings" weirdness.

Now, to adress the practical concerns. Being bad at the game and having your team carry you isn't a bannable offense. Actually it's exactly the opposite - Yoshida himself admits that they design casual content in a way where a couple good players can carry the rest. I can do the carrying and have done so many times. But sometimes it's nice to kick back and relax. I'm yet to be in an Alliance Raid where I was the lowest DPS on Archer. If we were to genuinely start banning players who are bad, we'd run out of population very soon.

Classes are too deeply engrained into the basis of the game that their removal would be a difficult and pointless task. Again, Yoshida stated as much himself.

In the content where it does matter - what SE considers High-End content - you actually can't bring classes. Real shame btw, I'd love to see how confused fflogs would be with an archer log. But I digress. We can conclude that SE does have ability to limit duties to "Jobs of Disciples of War/Magic". Allowing classes into casual content is intentional. Deal with it.

Being bad at the game is different to actively not using the job stones that gives you access to the actions content post level 30 is designed for. There's a fundamental difference here and even if someone misses every tooltip and help menu as a new player, you just solve that by force equipping the stone therefore meaning they can't miss it.

I don't think allowing classes into casual content is intentional, more like an oversight they're yet to fix because Arcanist has two jobs on a single class. The solution is to simply have one of those classes be a separate job unlock so Arcanist only follows through into one job.

Classes and jobs are a legacy from an era of FFXIV game design that no longer exists. It wouldn't be wasted effort to actually go back and fix this to reflect the modern design of FFXIV. Gladiator might as well be Paladin from level 1 in the same way Marauder might as well be Warrior. It's been almost a decade since ARR, we're way past the stage of jobless gameplay being anywhere close to intended game design.

Finally, there's so few people that actually want to play jobless as an intentional choice that I don't think the game is hurt by taking that away because in reality you're not actually losing anything.

[Azuri]

Being bad at the game is different to actively not using the job stones that gives you access to the actions content post level 30 is designed for. There's a fundamental difference here and even if someone misses every tooltip and help menu as a new player, you just solve that by force equipping the stone therefore meaning they can't miss it.

Does it matter if the end result is the same? I can show up to Copied Factory and spam Ture Thrust on DRG and that's completely fine. But somehow just being an Archer (that does more damage than the lowest DPS in the party) is such an issue?

I don't think allowing classes into casual content is intentional, more like an oversight they're yet to fix because Arcanist has two jobs on a single class. The solution is to simply have one of those classes be a separate job unlock so Arcanist only follows through into one job.

Classes and jobs are a legacy from an era of FFXIV game design that no longer exists. It wouldn't be wasted effort to actually go back and fix this to reflect the modern design of FFXIV. Gladiator might as well be Paladin from level 1 in the same way Marauder might as well be Warrior. It's been almost a decade since ARR, we're way past the stage of jobless gameplay being anywhere close to intended game design.

I'm not sure how is Arcanist relevant to this. As I said, they already have a system that prevents classes from entering certain duties. They could have easily applied it to every duty past level 30. But they didn't. And if you think that completely reworking the very foundation of combat system and a dozen of class quests to remove a working system that doesn't really cause any significant issues is worhtwile... well, Director and Producer himself seems to disagree with you.

Finally, there's so few people that actually want to play jobless as an intentional choice that I don't think the game is hurt by taking that away because in reality you're not actually losing anything.

I'd personally lose and entire power fantasy I enjoy. And have it replaced with one I utterly despise. Pretty big deal, tbh.

[Johners]

Does it matter if the end result is the same? I can show up to Copied Factory and spam Ture Thrust on DRG and that's completely fine. But somehow just being an Archer (that does more damage than the lowest DPS in the party) is such an issue?

1 person in the 24 man group being dead/AFK/playing really bad doesn't stop the group. Now try making it half the Alliance Raid or even the full group, we'd soon have different results. Not every single duty in the roulette queues are as easy as this example.

I'm not sure how is Arcanist relevant to this. As I said, they already have a system that prevents classes from entering certain duties. They could have easily applied it to every duty past level 30. But they didn't. And if you think that completely reworking the very foundation of combat system and a dozen of class quests to remove a working system that doesn't really cause any significant issues is worhtwile... well, Director and Producer himself seems to disagree with you.

Removing job stones in favour of making them passive actions you unlock at level 30 is the solution here. We already have passives that upgrade/replace actions, no reason why you couldn't just have job stones implemented in the same way. That also solves the few edge cases in which a new player somehow manages to ignore all the tooltips and help menus before queueing into their next duty without this equipped.

I'd personally lose and entire power fantasy I enjoy. And have it replaced with one I utterly despise. Pretty big deal, tbh.

That's a you problem though. Even if they don't explicitly force it, the content is designed to play as the job once you unlock that at level 30. The game has always been designed so you play as a Bard after level 30, not an Archer. If you don't like how the Bard plays, there's a myriad of other jobs to play.

[Azuri]

1 person in the 24 man group being dead/AFK/playing really bad doesn't stop the group. Now try making it half the Alliance Raid or even the full group, we'd soon have different results. Not every single duty in the roulette queues are as easy as this example.



Removing job stones in favour of making them passive actions you unlock at level 30 is the solution here. We already have passives that upgrade/replace actions, no reason why you couldn't just have job stones implemented in the same way. That also solves the few edge cases in which a new player somehow manages to ignore all the tooltips and help menus before queueing into their next duty without this equipped.



That's a you problem though. Even if they don't explicitly force it, the content is designed to play as the job once you unlock that at level 30. The game has always been designed so you play as a Bard after level 30, not an Archer. If you don't like how the Bard plays, there's a myriad of other jobs to play.

They are all that easy. I can just as easily spam that one single target GCD in a dungeon with no care. The run will take a little longer but so what? The duty timer is 60 minutes. So any run below that is fine and intended, right? And there is nothing about the game "designed so you play as a Bard after level 30". Bard doesn't have some unique ability that prevents Archer from completing the content. And since there is no DPS check... Why does having more abilities matter? I really like having fewer buttons to press, personally.

You keep on ignoring the technical aspect arguments I present so I have to conclude that this part of discussion is simply pointless.

[Saraide]

Does it matter if the end result is the same? I can show up to Copied Factory and spam Ture Thrust on DRG and that's completely fine. But somehow just being an Archer (that does more damage than the lowest DPS in the party) is such an issue?



I'm not sure how is Arcanist relevant to this. As I said, they already have a system that prevents classes from entering certain duties. They could have easily applied it to every duty past level 30. But they didn't. And if you think that completely reworking the very foundation of combat system and a dozen of class quests to remove a working system that doesn't really cause any significant issues is worhtwile... well, Director and Producer himself seems to disagree with you.



I'd personally lose and entire power fantasy I enjoy. And have it replaced with one I utterly despise. Pretty big deal, tbh.

This may sound obvious to some but intent matters. If someone accidentally steps on your toes that's different than someone stepping on your toes and then saying it was fully intentional. Refusing to equip the job stone is intentionally contributing less, not because you are bad at the job or distracted or tired or anything but just because you didnt feel like contributing as much.

[Azuri]

This may sound obvious to some but intent matters. If someone accidentally steps on your toes that's different than someone stepping on your toes and then saying it was fully intentional. Refusing to equip the job stone is intentionally contributing less, not because you are bad at the job or distracted or tired or anything but just because you didnt feel like contributing as much.

I don't see the difference. Plenty show up to DF runs just to be carried. This is my little way to escape the role of Yoshida's pony for carrying the baddies. As a good player I'm not obliged to carry every time. Sometimes it's relaxing to sandbag a bit too.

[Saraide]

I don't see the difference. Plenty show up to DF runs just to be carried. This is my little way to escape the role of Yoshida's pony for carrying the baddies. As a good player I'm not obliged to carry every time. Sometimes it's relaxing to sandbag a bit too.

I get the impression you are just actively looking away from the difference it makes to be the sandbag. This is the kind of arrogance that is inherent to this kind of not equipping jobstones: you expect others to carry you but also be smug about it.

[Azuri]

I get the impression you are just actively looking away from the difference it makes to be the sandbag. This is the kind of arrogance that is inherent to this kind of not equipping jobstones: you expect others to carry you but also be smug about it.

Does it matter if there is a genuinely bad player or an intentionally sandbagging player in the party? The outcome is the same. One player performs worse. If one is acceptable and perfectly fine, then so is the other.

[SnowVix]

Well, let's break up the circlejerk a little, shall we? You'd only force that bard job stone in my hands over my cold dead body. Archer is the bow job I always loved and I'm not trading it for some "we got real sad so we started playing music on our bowstrings" weirdness.

Now, to adress the practical concerns. Being bad at the game and having your team carry you isn't a bannable offense. Actually it's exactly the opposite - Yoshida himself admits that they design casual content in a way where a couple good players can carry the rest. I can do the carrying and have done so many times. But sometimes it's nice to kick back and relax. I'm yet to be in an Alliance Raid where I was the lowest DPS on Archer. If we were to genuinely start banning players who are bad, we'd run out of population very soon.

Classes are too deeply engrained into the basis of the game that their removal would be a difficult and pointless task. Again, Yoshida stated as much himself.

In the content where it does matter - what SE considers High-End content - you actually can't bring classes. Real shame btw, I'd love to see how confused fflogs would be with an archer log. But I digress. We can conclude that SE does have ability to limit duties to "Jobs of Disciples of War/Magic". Allowing classes into casual content is intentional. Deal with it.

It's not a "circlejerk", classes literally get nothing after 50 and there is a reason that expansion jobs don't have base classes. They're a legacy from 1.x, and anyone who intentionally queues an alliance raid in standard duty finder without their jobstone is actively griefing the 23 other players.